New method of calculating GOAT status

[octagonation]

Complete farce

 

[WhiteMousse]

I don't take PEDs into account because at the end of the day, it's hard to tell who was on PEDs and who wasn't (I think most everybody was).

Like the example of Silva. Silva popped in the Diaz fight but does that mean he was juicing his whole career?

DC never popped but his testosterone levels were 7-10 times higher than a normal person. Does that mean he was natural?

And before USADA it was even easier to avoid popping, so how do you take that into account?

Sure man. I did not mean it as any kind of criticism, I hope it wasn't taken that way. It's very difficult to quantify such an element, because of its nature (some pop, some are clearly on and never pop), and the different controls implemented in the sport throughout the years.

 

[humdizzle]

 

[Barteh]

Gustaffson came in with wins of Matyushenko, Thiago Silva and Shogun and he's an 8 quality opponent? Rampage an 8, Shogun a 9. Looks like you're valuing all those LHW wins extremely high.

 

[JKS]

The only issue I have is having Randy so high and having guys like Usman, Volk and Khabib so far behind him. Randy was not that good.

 

[Captain_Dammitt]

There is only 1 metric needed.

Is the fighter Jon Jones? If yes, then GOAT. If no, then not GOAT.

Easy day.

 

[Hank Grill]

How do you factor is now much of a sherdogger these guys are? Most of these dudes are nowhere near 6 foot 5 like the smallest of us are.

 

[achoo42]

Gustaffson came in with wins of Matyushenko, Thiago Silva and Shogun and he's an 8 quality opponent? Rampage an 8, Shogun a 9. Looks like you're valuing all those LHW wins extremely high.

I valued former champs higher, especially if they were recently champ or P4P #1. Shogun in particular was considered a strong champion since he was also Pride champ and beat the shit out of Rampage.

I gave Gustafsson high marks because he was considered the most talented LHW contender in a long time—being super tall, quick, a good defensive grappler, and very skilled on the feet. His threat was more evident in the way he moved rather than the opponents he beat.

In any case, you can subtract points here and there but I think Jones remains on top no matter how you look at it.

 

[chiefwiggum]

The list is meaningless as there is a handful of women on it. Why do ufc combine women ? It’s ridiculous.it’s like Clarissa shields being ahead of Tommy hearns.

 

[Clark Rogers]

That's a lot of work and well thought out and put together, I'll give you that.

It's still got a lot of subjectivity, as this topic always will, but at least you've got some logic behind yours.

 

[LoveMyMMA]

Title wins don’t hold much value in today’s UFC because fighters get undeserved title shots left, right, and center.

 

[Trabaho]

Joke of a thread
Randy would get stomped into oblivion by Stipe and DC

Basically your criteria is your opinion. I think that fight was dominant. I think that opponent was a can. I think that was a robbery

 

[HHJ]

The only issue I have is having Randy so high and having guys like Usman, Volk and Khabib so far behind him. Randy was not that good.

5 world titles. Pretty much defended most of them too.

 

[Fight Professor]

It is a good technique. But I feel that post-prime fights should also count. One way to do it is to subtract losses from wins (in orgs with a real athletic commission only) and multiply the result by 5. A 3 win delta would be 15 points while a 2 loss delta is -10 points. A dominant win over a good opponent can add a point or 2.

 

[JKS]

5 world titles. Pretty much defended most of them too.

Sure, but pretty much every title shot he got was gifted to him aside the first one. He won the HW belt, then vacated it and then won it coming back from Rings. Then you got a scenario where he won the LHW belt, lost it due to a cut and then beat Belfort to get it back, that counts as two world titles. And he only defended the HW belt the two occasions he had it.

Don't get me wrong, I think Randy is an all time great and a great champion. I just don' think what he did is better than the 3 I mentioned.

 

[achoo42]

Joke of a thread
Randy would get stomped into oblivion by Stipe and DC

And Mighty Mouse would get stomped by Rampage Jackson. Are you being intentionally stupid? This is a measure of resume, not who would beat who.

Basically your criteria is your opinion. I think that fight was dominant. I think that opponent was a can. I think that was a robbery

Then make your own, like I said. You can copy the whole thing into your own spreadsheet and make all the Couture opponents cans so he's the worst champion ever. I don't care. The point is the methodology, not my opinion.

 

[achoo42]

Don't get me wrong, I think Randy is an all time great and a great champion. I just don' think what he did is better than the 3 I mentioned.

That's only if you take losses into account. Looking purely at his accomplishments, Randy is definitely a level above Khabib. More title wins, two weight classes, and mostly championship level challengers. All while being an undersized LHW.

 

[Huligani]

I prefer the method in my signature.

 

[OmegaRugal]

Here's my criteria for calculating how good a champion's resume is:

• Each title win (not including interim) was scored on a scale of 10, with 10 being an all time great win, and 1 being a complete can.
• Then up to a 50% bonus for how dominant the win was, rounded to the nearest half point. E.g., 50% for total domination, but no bonus for a close fight.
• If the fight was controversial I deducted up to 50%. This means deducting points from fights like Reyes vs Jones or Lawler vs Condit which are commonly considered to be robberies.
• Points can also be deducted for inconclusive wins, fluke wins, and fights that the champion was very close to losing even if they ended up with the finish.
• Then you add up all the points to measure the greatness of a champion's resume.
• Every win is scored based on how good it was at the time. For example, Anderson Silva beating a prime Hendo was given 8 points, whereas Bisping beating Hendo 8 years later was only given 5 points.

Here's my results on a spreadsheet

This is purely a measure of resume, so it doesn't take into account things like drug test fails, how exciting they were, consecutive wins, or losses. So someone like Randy Couture will score very high despite losing a lot, whereas Khabib will score relatively low despite never losing.

And while I tried to be as fair as possible, it's going to end up being subjective no matter what. So feel free to copy and paste the spreadsheet into your own and fiddle with the numbers.

In any case, this is what came up as my top 30, plus their scores.
1. Jon Jones (129) *149 including non-title fights
2. Georges St. Pierre (119)
3. Anderson Silva (90) *119 including non-title fights
4. Demetrious Johnson (84)
5. José Aldo (76.5) *97.5 including WEC title wins
6. Randy Couture (75.5)
7. Amanda Nunes (73)
8. Matt Hughes (69)
9. Daniel Cormier (63.5)
10. Stipe Miocic (62.5)
11. Alexander Volkanovski (62)
12. Chuck Liddell (61.5)
13. Israel Adesanya (61)
14. BJ Penn (55)
15. Tito Ortiz (53)
16. Kamaru Usman (52)
17. TJ Dillashaw (51.5)
18. Valentina Shevchenko (50)
19. Cain Velasquez (50)
20. Max Holloway (48)
21. Khabib Nurmagomedov (44)
22. Dominick Cruz (43.5) *67 including WEC title wins
23. Henry Cejudo (42)
24. Chris Weidman (42)
25. Joanna Jędrzejczyk (40)
26. Ronda Rousey (39.5)
27. Tyron Woodley (39)
28. Tim Sylvia (37.5)
29. Zhang Weili (35.5)
30. Brock Lesnar (31)

Some takeaways:

• Adesanya wasn't even close to Silva's resume level.
• Usman wasn't close to GSP, he was still pretty far from Matt Hughes.
• Aljamain Sterling is nowhere close to Cruz or Dillashaw.
• Matt Hughes was a piece of shit but he's consistently underrated in top 10 talks.
• Khabib is far from a top 10 fighter in terms of resume. He might be an all-time great for how clean and dominant he was, but winning 4 title fights doesn't give you an all-time great resume.
• Jon Jones has the best resume. Doesn't mean he's the GOAT but it's hard to argue that anyone has a better resume.

And just for fun, the worst champions were:

• Evan Tanner (6)
• Vitor Belfort (4.5)
• Nicco Montaño (4)
  
• Germaine de Randamie (4)
  
• Bas Rutten (3)

Interesting to see Silva and GSP tied when u add the non title wins. One of which should have been a title win imo ... Silva made weight. Not his fault his opponent didnt.

 

[Streeter]

Only 1 goat its Jon Jones . I seriously doubt another fighter assembles his resume , his reign , retires unbeaten in cage....... the DQ was bullshit everyone knows it. No method needed if only 1 choice.