New article gives alternative account of GJJ history

[TankAbbott4Eva]

Royce was matched on the same side of the tourney as Ken Shamrock. They were not ducking quality opponents.

I thought the only fight that was pre-determined was Royce v Jimmerson, they wanted to show GJJ against the most popular martial art in the US. But yeah if it were all orchestrated you'd think you'd have had Royce v Ken in the final.

 

[bigraydaddy1]

That Ken Shamrock guy was pretty a good catch wrestler/submission wrestler and in his prime when Royce beat him. Dan Severn was not a walk in the park either

Dan Severn had no ground and pound. He just threw a couple slaps at Royce. Even he stated he never punched another man before.

"By the time I was given the nod, I was a last-minute fill-in. My training camp consisted of five days of training for an hour and a half each day. Then I walked into the world of no-holds-barred. I did not train a single strike. I did not train a single submission."

 

[PayPerView]

So we are not to believe what the Gracies say, but believe these other people why? What proof are they bringing?

Geo Omori was a japanese judoka that had gotten known as

 

[nooper]

Some of you are like ungrateful children on Christmas morning. The Gracie family gave you the art you study, a fine way to protect yourself, a great way to stay in shape, a community of friends and possible partners, a world class sport and arguably this site via UFC and modern MMA: Are they perfect? No. no one is, but stack their achievements up against yours and you will be found wanting. Robust debate, topic dissection and withering research are useful, but pedantic bias is one of the dullest aspects of the martial arts. try and be above it.

 

[lechien]

Regardless to why this was done BJJ offers excellent newaza training. I do not think there are many judo schools can offer comparable newaza level these days. Any judoka would benefit with training at BJJ school.

Not really.
The new generation of judokas are not interested in newaza training because their goals is Olympic judo.
I think BJJ could learn a ton from the old judokas. Because the older judokas still have that knowledge but it is disappearing.
I learned amazing details for triangle from a judoka.
He even got a nasty bicep slicer from side control that he calls a good pin!
But most of it is now banned in judo but we can still use in BJJ.

Today I was even shown a mount control that would work as a choke that I never seen in BJJ.

 

[Matsukaze]

Really, what difference does it make now? None.

The fact is the Gracies brought BJJ to the world. They pulled us out of the ninjutsu schools and McDojo's and showed us there is another way. And in doing so, changed martial arts globally for the better.

It wasn't Geo Omori, Mitsuyo Maeda, Luiz Fran

 

[devante]

Hit the nail on the head with this one.. before the 1st UFC I was practicing Judo and had been for several years.. In all that time in Judo not once was I ever shown a mount escape or any guard techniques....nothing.. it was all basic Olympic style Judo centered around throws, throws and more throws. I never thought of my Judo training as a self defense style nor did I think I could use it in a fight. It was just exercise for me. When I watched Royce in the UFC and the Gracie brand of Jiu Jitsu I knew right then that I had to learn that style.. I couldn't believe something like that existed and I was watching it work in live action against all these other deadly one strike one kill systems.

So if you train Brazilian Jiu Jitsu in America we should light a candle at Christmas and pay tribute to f#$@ing Gracie family.. especially Rorion and Royce for having the balls to put it on the line

in my experience judo is one of the best arts to use in self def, i seen judo guys throw guys left and right in fights ALL the time; an while i don't know alot of judoka who are top flight ground fighters, almost all the guys i had trained w/or known were functionally effective at the worst..and are pretty good at best.

not saying your experience was false; but the majority of judoka i have known, ALL COULD GRAPPLE..and did so very well.. An i never knew a judoka who didn't consider his art a viable form of self def, or couldn't actually defend themselves in fights..

 

[joe447]

 

[Russky]

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[Codger]

This version of events has about the same evidence as the Gracie version, not much.

I can't say I really care. I also don't really give a shit what the deal with early UFCs was. I don't personally think it was fixed. Maybe they weren't the absolute best fighters on the planet but I'm fairly sure they'd have all kicked the shit out of most guys Royce's size. I would not fancy facing Dan Severn.

And that is the point. Whatever the history of it, BJJ worked in UFC1 and it works now. So it's not all lies. The Gracies made it famous and so effectively "gave it to the world". Some of them are still a force in the art. I'm somewhat grateful for that.

 

[Matsukaze]

in my experience judo is one of the best arts to use in self def, i seen judo guys throw guys left and right in fights ALL the time; an while i don't know alot of judoka who are top flight ground fighters, almost all the guys i had trained w/or known were functionally effective at the worst..and are pretty good at best.

not saying your experience was false; but the majority of judoka i have known, ALL COULD GRAPPLE..and did so very well.. An i never knew a judoka who didn't consider his art a viable form of self def, or couldn't actually defend themselves in fights..

I didn't say to mean all Judoka but the Instructor that taught the classes I took did very little to no ground work.. Maybe it was just his focus was mainly throws I don't know but that was my experience.. although we did work standing self defense moves from time to time which I liked

 

[rmongler]

I learned amazing details for triangle from a judoka.
He even got a nasty bicep slicer from side control that he calls a good pin!
But most of it is now banned in judo but we can still use in BJJ.

Today I was even shown a mount control that would work as a choke that I never seen in BJJ.

well you know you cant say things like this and not give a story time now.

 

[BJJ Coffee Drinker]

Not really.
The new generation of judokas are not interested in newaza training because their goals is Olympic judo.
I think BJJ could learn a ton from the old judokas. Because the older judokas still have that knowledge but it is disappearing.
I learned amazing details for triangle from a judoka.
He even got a nasty bicep slicer from side control that he calls a good pin!
But most of it is now banned in judo but we can still use in BJJ.

Today I was even shown a mount control that would work as a choke that I never seen in BJJ.

Can you talk a little bit of the triangle details that may not be found in bjj?

Also can you elaborate on the mount control/choke?

I do watch Kosen Judo videos if I can find them and hope to pick stuff up. They are very interesting to me