Need your input: statistics on necessity of police

[lfd0311]

No.... Decriminalizing ALL drugs pretty damn close.
Its called the 2nd amendment, works faster then a cop, and wont shoot you or your dog.
Whats the saying?
"cops are minutes away when seconds count"
Own a gun. No matter if you support cops or not.

The massive hole in this logic is glaring. Having a gun and knowing how to use and be responsible with one are two vastly different things. Plus, some idiot rolling around with a gun is far more likely to shoot you or your dog, intentionally or otherwise, than the Police are.

 

[EradiatedHaggis]

I can tell by your post that you've had ZERO dealings with criminal elements in your life if you think the police merely existing deters crime. LO fucking L.

I can tell by your post that you assume the very few people you know represent everyone, everywhere as well as your knowledge, is the worlds only knowledge.

 

[EradiatedHaggis]

I did not realized the mafia was still big in the states.

Here you go.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_crime_bosses_convicted_in_the_21st_century

 

[lfd0311]

My guess is that society would stay mostly orderly.

Why do you think that?

 

[lfd0311]

I can tell by your post that you've had ZERO dealings with criminal elements in your life if you think the police merely existing deters crime. LO fucking L.

You are right about people commiting crime away from police, but not for the reason you think. People commit crimes away from police because you have to be one unlucky mother fucker for the cops to accidentally run up on you in the middle of some ill deed. The percentage of cops to citizens make the possibility of that happening astronomically low.

The crime rate in the US should give you a good idea of how effective the police are. I could be wrong but the amount of unsolved B&E is like 80-90%. The only time I ever got the police involved in my affairs is when I needed their report for an insurance claim. They sure as hell weren't ever going to find my stolen shit.

This is just terrible, awful posting. Yes, the police deter crime. Far from all of it, but far, far more than would occur if they didn't exist. You act like you know something about cops and criminals and then go on to act like you don't know anyone who hasn't been caught red handed in the act of committing a crime by a police officer. You also seem to think that the Police are one monolithic block and police the entire country as one entity. This is just an awful post.

 

[tonni]

So what criminal laws would you get rid of to facilitate the absence/minimization of the police?

Theft and assault just let me bang

 

[EradiatedHaggis]

An average settlement in the American West would see one murder per year for every 1,000 to 2,000 residents.

Umm...that means every 10,000-20,000 resendents = 10 murders a year. Every 100,000-200,000 = 100. Every 1,000,000-2,000,000 = 1,000 murders.

That is far worse than it is today. Also, those are MURDERS. Lynchings and frontier justice was not listed as MURDERS.

The largest lynching i American history, the 1891 New Orleans Lynching of 11 Italians, which actually almost led to a WAR with Italy, was not listed as Murder and was celebrated in the media all across America.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/March_14,_1891_New_Orleans_lynchings#Lynching

 

[lfd0311]

Everyone thought Portugal decriminalizing all drugs was going to be terrible... Yet it wasnt. You think its going to be bad until it actually happens.
Do i know if it will be better without cops, no, but it couldnt hurt to give it a try like Portugal did with drugs(which worked out great)
The US needs to find a solution to its police brutality issue, would dissolving the police be a sustainable solution, I couldnt say until it was tried.

"The opioid crisis soon stabilized, and the ensuing years saw dramatic drops in problematic drug use, HIV and hepatitis infection rates, overdose deaths, drug-related crime and incarceration rates. HIV infection plummeted from an all-time high in 2000 of 104.2 new cases per million to 4.2 cases per million in 2015. The data behind these changes has been studied and cited as evidence by harm-reduction movements around the globe."
https://www.theguardian.com/news/20...licy-is-working-why-hasnt-the-world-copied-it

Oh, Cool. Portugal did something? Awesome. This is what I hate about these sort of arguments. There are about 27 million more people living in the US who are either current or recovering cocaine users than live in all of Portugal. That's one single drug. So stop using that tiny ass country as an example of something.

https://www.google.com/search?sourc........0....1..gws-wiz.....0..0i131._UKNxFngM4k

https://drugabuse.com/library/crack-history-and-statistics/

 

[lfd0311]

In the burbs, barely need em to have a first world existence.

Wow....

 

[grimballer]

Look at Brazil

It was relatively safe during the military dictatorship

 

[Prutfis]

Not an argument at all. Decriminalizing drugs is not the same as having no police. That gun will surely help when a gang of 50 armed assholes invade your house. I don´t think you even know what exactly decriminalizing means.

Umm...that means every 10,000-20,000 resendents = 10 murders a year. Every 100,000-200,000 = 100. Every 1,000,000-2,000,000 = 1,000 murders.

That is far worse than it is today. Also, those are MURDERS. Lynchings and frontier justice was not listed as MURDERS.

The largest lynching i American history, the 1891 New Orleans Lynching of 11 Italians, which actually almost led to a WAR with Italy, was not listed as Murder and was celebrated in the media all across America.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/March_14,_1891_New_Orleans_lynchings#Lynching

NO is considered part of the west now?

Still not close to as violent as movies make it out to be. It was actually rather peacefull compared to the rest of america at that time. Property rights were enforced in the west etc.

 

[Prutfis]

Oh, Cool. Portugal did something? Awesome. This is what I hate about these sort of arguments. There are about 27 million more people living in the US who are either current or recovering cocaine users than live in all of Portugal. That's one single drug. So stop using that tiny ass country as an example of something.

https://www.google.com/search?sourc........0....1..gws-wiz.....0..0i131._UKNxFngM4k

https://drugabuse.com/library/crack-history-and-statistics/

Always with the population size excuse. That´s so weak.

 

[superpunch]

Everyone thought Portugal decriminalizing all drugs was going to be terrible... Yet it wasnt. You think its going to be bad until it actually happens.
Do i know if it will be better without cops, no, but it couldnt hurt to give it a try like Portugal did with drugs(which worked out great)
The US needs to find a solution to its police brutality issue, would dissolving the police be a sustainable solution, I couldnt say until it was tried.

"The opioid crisis soon stabilized, and the ensuing years saw dramatic drops in problematic drug use, HIV and hepatitis infection rates, overdose deaths, drug-related crime and incarceration rates. HIV infection plummeted from an all-time high in 2000 of 104.2 new cases per million to 4.2 cases per million in 2015. The data behind these changes has been studied and cited as evidence by harm-reduction movements around the globe."
https://www.theguardian.com/news/20...licy-is-working-why-hasnt-the-world-copied-it

What was the effect on society though? Do people have to see drug users in public now? Do people in cities see needles littered on the sidewalks? Who gives a fuck about HIV and hepatitis rates in the drug users -- society and responsible non-addicts are what matters.

 

[lfd0311]

Always with the population size excuse. That´s so weak.

Yet you didn't attempt to refute it in any way.

 

[Cid]

Oh, Cool. Portugal did something? Awesome. This is what I hate about these sort of arguments. There are about 27 million more people living in the US who are either current or recovering cocaine users than live in all of Portugal. That's one single drug. So stop using that tiny ass country as an example of something.

https://www.google.com/search?sourc........0....1..gws-wiz.....0..0i131._UKNxFngM4k

https://drugabuse.com/library/crack-history-and-statistics/

What exactly is your argument here? That the system you have in place to combat drug addiction is so catastrophically bad that trying a different one shouldn't even be considered?

 

[lfd0311]

What exactly is your argument here? That the system you have in place to combat drug addiction is so catastrophically bad that trying a different one shouldn't even be considered?

That just because something may or may not work in a country that has very few people doesn't mean it can be transplanted onto a society that has a massive population. Clearly your question was just an attempt at an insult though.

 

[ObamaPhoneLady]

Jobs and education opportunities do more to stem violence and crime than policing.

That's why there was a low police presence in where I grew up. Everyone had something to do, all the kids went to school, and the police were usually involved in stuff that was alcohol related, and properly swept under the rug.

Where and when was this?

 

[Cid]

That just because something may or may not work in a country that has very few people doesn't mean it can be transplanted onto a society that has a massive population. Clearly your question was just an attempt at an insult though.

Why does the amount of people make that big a difference?

Wouldn't China and India have drug problems 3 greater than yours if it did?

It's a common theme for people on sherdog to cite population differences as a big reason for something not being able to work without actually explaining why.

 

[Long Dark Blues]

police are necessary, absolutely

what isn't necessary is concentrating 90% of your police force into traffic duty, negating the ol beat cop function that actually served to build rapport w/in the community. NOBODY wants to be pulled over, period, hence you have the current distrust w/ people and LEO (regardless of race, I know it's probably worse for certain groups)

People, largely, do not trust or like police. But virtually everyone likes Firemen or doesn't mind them. Why is that? B/c all they do is help people, not cite them......

100%.

Police are necessary, but not as roving toll collectors.

 

[lfd0311]

Why does the amount of people make that big a difference?

Because you can't approach a problem that has a small sample size the same way you would with massive numbers. That doesn't correlate.

Wouldn't China and India have drug problems 3 greater than yours if it did?

China constantly publicly executes people for non violent drug offenses. India is a third world country and doesn't keep good data on anything. Of the data that is kept on anything anywhere by Western countries, just the Punjab, which is the extreme Northwest portion of India, reports 1 million plus specifically heroin users in an area a little bit larger than Nevada. So India clearly has a much worse drug problem than we do.