Neck Cranks....

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Stmarkus

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Curious, are neck cranks legal in BJJ, and if so, are they considered a dick move?
Relatively new to training, (2 months), was rolling with a white belt with about a year experience. He ended up taking my back, but couldn't get the RNC because I kept defending my neck and rolling. Finally he just cranked my neck to the side so he could land the choke. Hurt like a sonovabitch! Anyway just wondering if its part of the deal.

Thanks
 
Neck cranks are generally frowned upon in gi jiu-jitsu, but what he did to you doesn't sound like a neck crank. A neck crank is where you try to force the neck beyond its normal range of motion. You can crossface someone or turn their head to expose the neck. Just don't try to twist or bend his head off!
 
no neck crank, it was just a cross face.

you need to harden up.
 
lechien said:
no neck crank, it was just a cross face.

you need to harden up.
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This. Ask your instructor how to defend against what he did.

As far as legality and training morality.. Some tournaments allow neck cranks at higher levels, some do not allow them at all.

In training, I'd just suggest that you don't use them. For one, they're likely against the rules of any tournament you're getting ready for and for two, they can cause lasting pain or even injuries to your training partners.

If you're working a sub and they're not tapping from a choke you feel you're applying or there's question about whether you were choking them or cranking them, ask. Especially for things like arm-triangles where the difference between a choke and a crank can be hard to measure. I'll pause right in the middle of a roll and ask them if it's choking or cranking just to make sure I'm not being a dick and fucking with their spine.
 
I wouldn't initiate a neck crank war, but the way I play it is don't do it to me unless you want me to twist your fucking wig. Yes, neck cranks are a valid submission but it's one of those moves I leave to the street or competition. I don't need to bust my training partner's neck when there's about a hundred different ways to submit a human body.
 
Neck cranks are illegal in gi bjj. It is not illegal to turn the head or cross face you though.

I don't see how he could neck crank you from the back unless he camel clutched you or full nelsoned you. I guess if he used one hand on the chin and just started turning your head like he was going to break it Bruce Lee style, that would be illegal.

I have used a power half from the back several times, I have never been called on it (its not a neck crank unless you refuse to be broken down, which means it is not a crank IMO).

It sounds like he just did a deep cross face and pinned you chin sideways... I think that would be legal. Is it a dick move? I think that depends on the circumstance... I tend to think "dick moves" are perfectly fine as long as it is a competitive roll.
 
lechien said:
no neck crank, it was just a cross face.

you need to harden up.
Click to expand...

armtriangle said:
Neck cranks are illegal in gi bjj. It is not illegal to turn the head or cross face you though.

I don't see how he could neck crank you from the back unless he camel clutched you or full nelsoned you. I guess if he used one hand on the chin and just started turning your head like he was going to break it Bruce Lee style, that would be illegal.

I have used a power half from the back several times, I have never been called on it (its not a neck crank unless you refuse to be broken down, which means it is not a crank IMO).

It sounds like he just did a deep cross face and pinned you chin sideways... I think that would be legal. Is it a dick move? I think that depends on the circumstance... I tend to think "dick moves" are perfectly fine as long as it is a competitive roll.
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Ok...This....He had both hooks in, seatbelt control, then tried to get the RNC, when that failed, he grabbed me by the chin and the back of the head, and twisted...Past where my neck normally twist to... Whatever it was...still hurts 2 weeks later...
 
I'm tired of defending neck cranks on this forum, so I'll just say that they are not intrinsically a dick move and when done properly are far less likely to cause injury than heel hooks and even kimuras. I've trained with neck cranks my entire grappling career and have never injured nor been injured by one (aside from some mild soreness which was less than what I've experienced from countless other submissions), nor do I know or know of anyone who has been. On the other hand, I know numerous people who have been seriously and permanently injured from heel hooks and kimuras (and yet there is nobody shouting about how they need to be banned).

That said, a lot of people are afraid of them and will freak out on you if you do them, and if the place you are training at forbids them you should not do them.
 
Stmarkus said:
Ok...This....He had both hooks in, seatbelt control, then tried to get the RNC, when that failed, he grabbed me by the chin and the back of the head, and twisted...Past where my neck normally twist to... Whatever it was...still hurts 2 weeks later...
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I have a similar story. My first week in BJJ and my partner sank a deep RNC on me, my neck literally hurt for 2 weeks.
 
BJJ Beginner said:
I'm tired of defending neck cranks on this forum, so I'll just say that they are not intrinsically a dick move and when done properly are far less likely to cause injury than heel hooks and even kimuras. I've trained with neck cranks my entire grappling career and have never injured nor been injured by one (aside from some mild soreness which was less than what I've experienced from countless other submissions), nor do I know or know of anyone who has been. On the other hand, I know numerous people who have been seriously and permanently injured from heel hooks and kimuras (and yet there is nobody shouting about how they need to be banned).

That said, a lot of people are afraid of them and will freak out on you if you do them, and if the place you are training at forbids them you should not do them.
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Lucky you.

Me, tho... I'm afraid of them and will freak out on you if you do them. They fuck my shit up.
 
Stmarkus said:
My chin was back past my shoulder. Thats a crossface? :rolleyes:
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yep.

Personnally, I do not do cross face and will get mad if someone does it on me.

a neck crank is like a guillotine and they bend your neck.
 
BJJ Beginner said:
I'm tired of defending neck cranks on this forum, so I'll just say that they are not intrinsically a dick move and when done properly are far less likely to cause injury than heel hooks and even kimuras. I've trained with neck cranks my entire grappling career and have never injured nor been injured by one (aside from some mild soreness which was less than what I've experienced from countless other submissions), nor do I know or know of anyone who has been. On the other hand, I know numerous people who have been seriously and permanently injured from heel hooks and kimuras (and yet there is nobody shouting about how they need to be banned).

That said, a lot of people are afraid of them and will freak out on you if you do them, and if the place you are training at forbids them you should not do them.
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comapring a neck crank to a kimura. :icon_neut
 
Seriously? You get pissed off if someone crossfaces you? No one cries if you do it in wrestling as long as you don't give them a forearm shiver.
 
Didn't he say the guy held his chin in one hand and twisted his face until his chin was going past his shoulder. That doesn't sound like a crossface... It sounds like a ninja move that his used to kill the enemy while sneaking up behind him...
 
I don't mind neck cranks myself. I don't use them, because its normally considered rude. But I don't mind when guys use them on me, especially wrestlers or MMA guys. If it hurts too much I'll tap, and it will teach me to defend it better next time. I don't like avoiding moves just because they're not allowed in tournaments.
 
neck cranks are deff a dick move. something i would feel bad about doing anytime not just while training..

my first competition during my third match my opponent put me in a nasty neck crank and the ref didnt say anything about it.... i felt my neck pop and the guy just held on for dear life for what seemed like two minutes... for about three months i wasn't able to turn my head all the way to the right and would even wake up at night if i rolled over onto my stomach..

anyway neck cranks are BS stay away from them.
 
So if you don't tap to a neck crank and get injured, it makes them dick moves? Good logic.
 
Vaga said:
So if you don't tap to a neck crank and get injured, it makes them dick moves? Good logic.
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its not allowed in most competitions for a reason. thing is it didn't feel bad enough for me to tap but ended up causing a lot of pain later. i can only imagine how bad it would have been it had been tighter and i would have had to tap.. the guy kimura'd me later in the match and i wasn't dumb enough to let my arm snap..

so yeah i think it's a dick move since it can very easily lead to serious injury.. kind of like a heelhook. maybe i'm softer than most but being as it's just a sport and not life or death i think passing on something like that even when you see the opening isn't that bad of an idea..
 
Who says I didn't tap? He just cranked it so fast I barely had time! Its not like I was trying to out muscle it with my neck! :icon_neut
 
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