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don't fins want to be in nato?
International [NATO News] Putin: lifting Ukraine missile restrictions would "put NATO at war with Russia"
- Thread starter Arkain2K
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I only hear against it in real life really but might be just my circle or places i visit
Think it was old timers getting spooked when ukr began, still remember what shitshow it caused here.
Either way turkey only has problems with sweden,we are ok apperantly but since politicians want countries to go in together for some reason we are on hold
Turkey wants to annex Greece and Cyprus.
This.
We also had tasted how behawed countries when U.S had been under Clinton, Obama and Trump and Biden.
Nothing had changed.
Hungary and Germany, Turkey and Austria....
When U.S had been ruled by Donald the Saint Innocent we once replaced supposed german pilots with guys from Portugal, Spain and U.S... for a reason...
While german pilots aren't bad.
In 2000 ies they had deNazified some stuff....
This.
We also had tasted how behawed countries when U.S had been under Clinton, Obama and Trump and Biden.
Nothing had changed.
Hungary and Germany, Turkey and Austria....
When U.S had been ruled by Donald the Saint Innocent we once replaced supposed german pilots with guys from Portugal, Spain and U.S... for a reason...
While german pilots aren't bad.
In 2000 ies they had deNazified some stuff....
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Finland wants to join NATO with Sweden but could go solo
By David Mac Dougall with AP • 24/01/2023
Finland could consider joining NATO without Sweden if Turkey continues to block their joint bid to enter the military alliance.
During a Tuesday morning television interview, Foreign Minister Pekka Haavisto said that both Nordic nations joining NATO together was "absolutely the number one option," but that "we have to be ready to evaluate the situation."
"Has something happened that would in the long term prevent Sweden's application from progressing?" Haavisto asked.
The answer to his question would seem to be yes.
On Monday, Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan declared that Sweden no longer had Turkey's support for its NATO application after a Danish extremist burned a copy of the Quran in Sweden over the weekend.
A few hours after his initial remarks, Haavisto spoke to journalists at a hastily-arranged press conference in parliament and clarified his comments, saying he had been "imprecise" and that Finland still wanted to join NATO together with the Swedes.
Despite the backpedalling, the foreign minister's comments were the first tacit admission that the Finnish government has been looking ahead and considering scenarios that might unfold, raising doubts about becoming NATO members in parallel with Sweden at a time when the alliance is seeking to present a united front in the face of Russia's war in Ukraine.
"He's now said what was always implicit but previously left unsaid, that our goal is always that we want to do this together with Sweden, but nobody has definitively said Finland would never go at it alone -- not Sanna Marin, not Pekka Haavisto, not President Niinistö," said Charly Salonius-Pasternak, a Senior Researcher at the Finnish Institute for International Affairs (FIIA) in Helsinki.
"At his press conference, he clarified that as long as the process is moving then there is no need to think about anything else. Finnish policy has not changed, it's only if the process gets permanently frozen we would have to think about something else," Salonius-Pasternak told Euronews.
For the time being, in particular ahead of a Finnish general election in early April, no serious Finnish politician would actively campaign for the country to go solo with its NATO application and leave Sweden behind.
Finland sees a possible window of time for Turkey to give the green light to NATO applications between the Turkish elections in mid-May and the next NATO summit in Lithuania in June.
After that, if there was still no movement from Ankara, there would have to be more serious discussions for the new government in Helsinki to figure out their next steps.
How has Sweden reacted?
Speaking to reporters in Stockholm on Tuesday evening, Swedish Prime Minister Ulf Kristersson said he “understands the frustration that many in Finland feel” over not having been admitted to the alliance already, but called for calm and urged Swedes who oppose NATO membership to “realise the gravity” of the security situation.
“There are forces both in Sweden and outside Sweden who want to prevent Sweden from becoming a NATO member,” said Kristersson, who came to power in the autumn with the support of a far-right political party.
“And it’s against that backdrop we should see that there are provocateurs who want to damage Sweden’s relations to other countries, leading to a delay in Swedish membership of NATO.”
Finland's uncoupled membership 'could work more for Sweden'
A possible worst-case scenario for NATO memberships would be for Turkey to ratify Finland's bid but not Sweden's.
The Finns would then have to decide whether or not to deposit their own legal paperwork in Washington DC to take that final step in becoming full NATO members, even if it meant leaving Sweden outside the military organisation.
"It would be really bad for Finnish politicians and domestic politics. The Kremlin would love it if one NATO member has just gone against the US and the will of the other NATO countries. Geopolitically this would be great for Russia," said Salonius-Pasternak.
He reckons Sweden understands that Finland wants to join NATO together, but if the stars do not align, Finnish membership would still improve Nordic and Baltic security.
"And Finland could work more for Sweden as a member inside rather than outside."
https://www.euronews.com/2023/01/24...ing-joining-nato-without-sweden-says-minister
By David Mac Dougall with AP • 24/01/2023
Finland could consider joining NATO without Sweden if Turkey continues to block their joint bid to enter the military alliance.
During a Tuesday morning television interview, Foreign Minister Pekka Haavisto said that both Nordic nations joining NATO together was "absolutely the number one option," but that "we have to be ready to evaluate the situation."
"Has something happened that would in the long term prevent Sweden's application from progressing?" Haavisto asked.
The answer to his question would seem to be yes.
On Monday, Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan declared that Sweden no longer had Turkey's support for its NATO application after a Danish extremist burned a copy of the Quran in Sweden over the weekend.
A few hours after his initial remarks, Haavisto spoke to journalists at a hastily-arranged press conference in parliament and clarified his comments, saying he had been "imprecise" and that Finland still wanted to join NATO together with the Swedes.
Despite the backpedalling, the foreign minister's comments were the first tacit admission that the Finnish government has been looking ahead and considering scenarios that might unfold, raising doubts about becoming NATO members in parallel with Sweden at a time when the alliance is seeking to present a united front in the face of Russia's war in Ukraine.
"He's now said what was always implicit but previously left unsaid, that our goal is always that we want to do this together with Sweden, but nobody has definitively said Finland would never go at it alone -- not Sanna Marin, not Pekka Haavisto, not President Niinistö," said Charly Salonius-Pasternak, a Senior Researcher at the Finnish Institute for International Affairs (FIIA) in Helsinki.
"At his press conference, he clarified that as long as the process is moving then there is no need to think about anything else. Finnish policy has not changed, it's only if the process gets permanently frozen we would have to think about something else," Salonius-Pasternak told Euronews.
For the time being, in particular ahead of a Finnish general election in early April, no serious Finnish politician would actively campaign for the country to go solo with its NATO application and leave Sweden behind.
Finland sees a possible window of time for Turkey to give the green light to NATO applications between the Turkish elections in mid-May and the next NATO summit in Lithuania in June.
After that, if there was still no movement from Ankara, there would have to be more serious discussions for the new government in Helsinki to figure out their next steps.
How has Sweden reacted?
Speaking to reporters in Stockholm on Tuesday evening, Swedish Prime Minister Ulf Kristersson said he “understands the frustration that many in Finland feel” over not having been admitted to the alliance already, but called for calm and urged Swedes who oppose NATO membership to “realise the gravity” of the security situation.
“There are forces both in Sweden and outside Sweden who want to prevent Sweden from becoming a NATO member,” said Kristersson, who came to power in the autumn with the support of a far-right political party.
“And it’s against that backdrop we should see that there are provocateurs who want to damage Sweden’s relations to other countries, leading to a delay in Swedish membership of NATO.”
Finland's uncoupled membership 'could work more for Sweden'
A possible worst-case scenario for NATO memberships would be for Turkey to ratify Finland's bid but not Sweden's.
The Finns would then have to decide whether or not to deposit their own legal paperwork in Washington DC to take that final step in becoming full NATO members, even if it meant leaving Sweden outside the military organisation.
"It would be really bad for Finnish politicians and domestic politics. The Kremlin would love it if one NATO member has just gone against the US and the will of the other NATO countries. Geopolitically this would be great for Russia," said Salonius-Pasternak.
He reckons Sweden understands that Finland wants to join NATO together, but if the stars do not align, Finnish membership would still improve Nordic and Baltic security.
"And Finland could work more for Sweden as a member inside rather than outside."
https://www.euronews.com/2023/01/24...ing-joining-nato-without-sweden-says-minister
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you can't become a nato member without all the members saying yes
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Because of the Unanimous Agreement nature of Article 10 in regards to new membership, as established since 1949.
This is common knowledge, as well known as Article 5's "an attack on one is an attack on all".
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thats what i would like to know. Seems like a cut and dry majority vote, who cares if one country doesnt like it, they can leave NATO.
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Finland has a lot more reason to be afraid lol. Russia is creeping up on them. They have a pretty good track record of kicking Russian ass but so do the Poles even though they lost. Neither wants to see another Russian invasion.
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Nah
If they had bagged ukraine quickly then fin might have been next, but since they stuck in ukr, gonna take a while before they can invade again.
(Ironically the original attack force send to ukr might have been enough to ko fin size wise so probably should have come here first if they had conquest in mind)
Btw it is a bit wrong to compare today's Poland vs Poland in 1939 th....
Now they had improved their air forces and ground forces ....
Better than they had in 1939 th when their airceraft was ineferiour and tanks too ( damn big difference ) and actually today Germany alone doesn't have any chance to beat Poland in ground war theater. It is impossible.
Sorry....it is reality.
+ despite internet stuff after inventarisation had been done appeared that Germany does have in working condition just 212 main battle tanks.
Situation with self propelled hotwizers and guns not likely is better.
For modern Germany 1,75% from GDP for military looks like expensive tragedy.
For modern Poland 3% of GDP for military looks not enough.
And sorry, in ground forces battles Poland alone is capable to deNazify Germany till french border...
It is reality... Real evaluation.
Now they had improved their air forces and ground forces ....
Better than they had in 1939 th when their airceraft was ineferiour and tanks too ( damn big difference ) and actually today Germany alone doesn't have any chance to beat Poland in ground war theater. It is impossible.
Sorry....it is reality.
+ despite internet stuff after inventarisation had been done appeared that Germany does have in working condition just 212 main battle tanks.
Situation with self propelled hotwizers and guns not likely is better.
For modern Germany 1,75% from GDP for military looks like expensive tragedy.
For modern Poland 3% of GDP for military looks not enough.
And sorry, in ground forces battles Poland alone is capable to deNazify Germany till french border...
It is reality... Real evaluation.
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I think they would be wary to invade Finland no matter what the circumstances. They got their asses handed to them in the Winter War and I think even on other occasions. From what I can tell studying military history. If you wanna beat Russia make them invade you first because they suck on offense, supply lines, everything. If you invade them you're signing your own death warrant.
Finland should go solo even without Sweden ...ASAP.
Putin newer will forgive Finland these things:
1. Doesn't purchase Russia's electricity anymore.
W.
2. Told that might survive without their natural gas supplies...
3. Delivered 590 000 000 EUR worth lethal aid to Ukraine....
No one in Finland should dream that they are more safe than some Estonia.
Politicians in Kremlin and Putin hate Finland and are triggered.
Rosatom too hates Finland cos cancelled contract....
Putin newer will forgive Finland these things:
1. Doesn't purchase Russia's electricity anymore.
W.
2. Told that might survive without their natural gas supplies...
3. Delivered 590 000 000 EUR worth lethal aid to Ukraine....
No one in Finland should dream that they are more safe than some Estonia.
Politicians in Kremlin and Putin hate Finland and are triggered.
Rosatom too hates Finland cos cancelled contract....
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Well, they are attacking the Kurds in Syria. Not to mention their own citizens, since they are becoming an autocratic theocracy.
NATO would choose turkey in a heart beat
Sweden doesn’t offer much while turkey defends Europe from Syria
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Turkey stopped negotiations yesterday according to news
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