Native americans

CableandThanos said:
Who the hell is not accepting them into american culture?
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If you're going to pretend to be ignorant to american history, it's not my job to teach you. Go read a book. People act like racism ended 200 years ago instead of 20 ish years ago, within our lifetime. People like you think hundreds of year of racism magically have zero effect on a culture. Things being relatively equal right now doesn't undo that damage.
 
Mike said:
If you're going to pretend to be ignorant to american history, it's not my job to teach you. Go read a book. People act like racism ended 200 years ago instead of 20 ish years ago, within our lifetime. People like you think hundreds of year of racism magically have zero effect on a culture. Things being relatively equal right now doesn't undo that damage.
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WTF are you babbling about? are you talking about blacks or NA?

I read your post saying that people dont accept them into american culture. I thought you were talking about NA?

If you are talking about blacks, they have developed their own "culture". Now you can say that is because we didn't accept them into white culture.

And you don't know what the fuck I know or think you little bitch, so keep my name out your cocksucker.
 
CableandThanos said:
I don't know ask the guy i quoted that said people didn't allow them into AC.

I guess he means into regular society and not just relegated to reservations.
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Yes natives and blacks were ostracized from american culture, as were hispanics. Anyone that couldn't pass for white. For hundreds of years People act like they live in some other america and were completely unaware this happened. Sure things aren't as bad now, that doesn't magically undo generations of serious cultural problems that have been passed down.
 
CableandThanos said:
WTF are you babbling about? are you talking about blacks or NA?

I read your post saying that people dont accept them into american culture. I thought you were talking about NA?

If you are talking about blacks, they have developed their own "culture". Now you can say that is because we didn't accept them into white culture.

And you don't know what the fuck I know or think you little bitch, so keep my name out your cocksucker.
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Oh shut the fuck up you retard. Don't try to talk like a tough guy over the internet. I'm not afraid of some random dumb fuck on a message board. I've seen you post stupid shit for years, I'm fairly familiar with you at this point.
 
Mike said:
Yes natives and blacks were ostracized from american culture, as were hispanics. Anyone that couldn't pass for white. For hundreds of years People act like they live in some other america and were completely unaware this happened. Sure things aren't as bad now, that doesn't magically undo generations of serious cultural problems that have been passed down.
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Well fuck then. Tell me though, even though my ancestors or I were never involved in this bad shit, what's a fair amount of my salary to give up to pay people who aren't victims for crimes I didn't commit.

Give me a ballpark figure of how much people should be paying to make up for this shit they didn't do.
 
CableandThanos said:
You said if you killed a dude in war and found out he had a kid yuo would take the kid and bring him into your tribe.

Why would you do that instead of leaving him with other members of his own tribe or family?
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Well I dunno. Maybe they were dead, or maybe they fled. Who knows. I suppose having the option was nice, at least, rather than a guaranteed death in the unforgiving desert sun. But, then again, I never used the word "noble".
 
Mike said:
Yes natives and blacks were ostracized from american culture, as were hispanics. Anyone that couldn't pass for white. For hundreds of years People act like they live in some other america and were completely unaware this happened. Sure things aren't as bad now, that doesn't magically undo generations of serious cultural problems that have been passed down.
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More than just ostracized. It was straight up illegal to practice native religion until comparatively recent. Also, it was illegal for many natives, or at least those that couldnt pass for non-native, to live or operate outside of reservations straight up. These laws have not been off the books for as long as some might think.
 
bushman505 said:
Well fuck then. Tell me though, even though my ancestors or I were never involved in this bad shit, what's a fair amount of my salary to give up to pay people who aren't victims for crimes I didn't commit.

Give me a ballpark figure of how much people should be paying to make up for this shit they didn't do.
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I'm not saying it's anyone's fault in the present day. I also don't think just throwing some welfare at people helps anything. I live net to a reservation, extra free cash isn't helping them. They need change, serious change, within their community. That's something the need to put some effort into themselves, but they're going to need government help as well. If they could do it on their own they would. It's a complicated problem, and I don't think blank checks or throwing around blame helps.


I'm just saying the black and native communities aren't fucked up simply because they're terrible or lazy people. It's much more complicated problem than that. It's incredibly frustrating when people say well those problems were in the past, like centuries of being ostracized and denied opportunities and a chance to fit into the community isn't a LARGE part of why their communities are fucked up today.
 
Limbo Pete said:
More than just ostracized. It was straight up illegal to practice native religion until comparatively recent. Also, it was illegal for many natives, or at least those that couldnt pass for non-native, to live or operate outside of reservations straight up. These laws have not been off the books for as long as some might think.
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Yup and just like with blacks, concerted efforts were made to prevent their upward mobility and integration in society. Jim crow wasn''t all that long ago and they still try to sneak in jim crow measures even today. The darker your skin color the more hazing you received. I mean I'm not saying 20 or 30 year olds today are responsible for that, but let's not deny this shit happened and had an impact.
 
Mike said:
I'm not saying it's anyone's fault in the present day. I also don't think just throwing some welfare at people helps anything. I live net to a reservation, extra free cash isn't helping them. They need change, serious change, within their community. That's something the need to put some effort into themselves, but they're going to need government help as well. If they could do it on their own they would. It's a complicated problem, and I don't think blank checks or throwing around blame helps.


I'm just saying the black and native communities aren't fucked up simply because they're terrible or lazy people. It's much more complicated problem than that. It's incredibly frustrating when people say well those problems were in the past, like centuries of being ostracized and denied opportunities and a chance to fit into the community isn't a LARGE part of why their communities are fucked up today.
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This is a crucially important point. Many tribal populations face it both barrels from intentionally destructive federal government practices and also horribly, hopelessly corrupt tribal governments. It's a cluster fuck at every level. You've got all these extremely poor, often drastically uneducated people with no appreciable resources- natural or otherwise- at the mercy of entities that exist only to use them as leverage on some sort of fucked up BIA/tribal gov/private interest gameboard. Couple that with the devastation still being felt through the legacy of things such as boarding schools or the Termination Acts and it's a recipe for misery. Tribes are struggling hard to form effective, competent, non-corrupt councils but it's just one piece of the puzzle. And getting any kind of help from outside interest groups is a roll of the dice that more often than not ends with disappointment as all these fucking hippies co-opt some cause then completely forget about the groups they are ostensibly there to help "raise awareness for".
 
Limbo Pete said:
This is a crucially important point. Many tribal populations face it both barrels from intentionally destructive federal government practices and also horribly, hopelessly corrupt tribal governments. It's a cluster fuck at every level. You've got all these extremely poor, often drastically uneducated people with no appreciable resources- natural or otherwise- at the mercy of entities that exist only to use them as leverage on some sort of fucked up BIA/tribal gov/private interest gameboard. Couple that with the devastation still being felt through the legacy of things such as boarding schools or the Termination Acts and it's a recipe for misery. Tribes are struggling hard to form effective, competent, non-corrupt councils but it's just one piece of the puzzle. And getting any kind of help from outside interest groups is a roll of the dice that more often than not ends with disappointment as all these fucking hippies co-opt some cause then completely forget about the groups they are ostensibly there to help "raise awareness for".
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Limbo Pete said:
This is a crucially important point. Many tribal populations face it both barrels from intentionally destructive federal government practices and also horribly, hopelessly corrupt tribal governments. It's a cluster fuck at every level. You've got all these extremely poor, often drastically uneducated people with no appreciable resources- natural or otherwise- at the mercy of entities that exist only to use them as leverage on some sort of fucked up BIA/tribal gov/private interest gameboard. Couple that with the devastation still being felt through the legacy of things such as boarding schools or the Termination Acts and it's a recipe for misery. Tribes are struggling hard to form effective, competent, non-corrupt councils but it's just one piece of the puzzle. And getting any kind of help from outside interest groups is a roll of the dice that more often than not ends with disappointment as all these fucking hippies co-opt some cause then completely forget about the groups they are ostensibly there to help "raise awareness for".
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Ditto. Their culture is a mess on so many different levels. Some of which is no fault of their own, some of which is a by product of the resources they are supplemented by a government trying the save face in a relatively lackluster manner. A legitimately fucked up generation is now raising an even more fucked up generation. Many of those reservation kids don't stand a chance. It's even sadder when you consider these kids who are already at a disadvantage are having multiple kids of their own at extremely young ages. Further handcuffing their ability to get themselves out of poverty while simultaneously continuing the cycle they're in and passing that on to their children.

I have no clue how they're going to fix those issues.
 
Big Tuppy Hole said:
Explain this, im all ears
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Whites supplied the guns, ammo, and the warships and manipulated a weak and hungry band of Taranaki Maori into conquering the Chathams, essentially doing the white mans dirty business. You think it woulda happened without the white man's meddling?
 
Natives in Canada are treated very well. They have access to grants, scholarships and assistance others can only dream of. The government is very good at doing straightforward things like giving money. The young natives, they're not moving into society and doing anything useful. Living off reserve means giving up some benefits, it's easier to stay and be idle. Their alcoholic and drug-addicted family members and community also set a terrible example. You can't ask the government to fix a value structure. If a situation like this happened under normal circumstances, people would have to evolve and move away from doing things that don't work because they'd starve. But welfare has made it possible to keep sustaining a decaying lifestyle perpetually. Those communities have no reason to exist anymore, the hunter and gatherer lifestyle is dead. It would be better if the government gave back private ownership, disbanded the bands as legal entities, and treated them like normal citizens who have to find jobs and fit into society. People would be outraged but really it would be the kind thing to do long-term.
 
pacifikan said:
Whites supplied the guns, ammo, and the warships and manipulated a weak and hungry band of Taranaki Maori into conquering the Chathams, essentially doing the white mans dirty business. You think it woulda happened without the white man's meddling?
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You rounded them up like sheep and killed them, there blood is on your hands
 
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