My second week grappling, looking for some advice.

Chthon

Chthon

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So this has been my second week grappling, i'm learning more and more each day. Keep in mind that last night I trained in striking for two hours before training in grappling for two hours, so I was already a little winded and couldn't muscle around as much.

There were only two other guys there, Sean and Keith, both guys who have been grappling at various places for over four years. They're cool guys and were trying to make sure I learned and explaining things to me. Coach shows us some technique, and then we free roll for the last half hour or so.

First i'm with Sean, who has about 40lbs on me. When we clinch up, we're on our knees but he's doing Thai clinching stuff, digging his forehead into my face and trying to bend my neck around. He also tends to rest his elbows on people's faces when he has top position, puts his knee or shin on people's faces if they try to armbar him or something, stuff like that. Is that standard in grappling? I don't have a problem with it, Sean's a cool guy and if I did have a problem i'd tell him, but I was wondering if most people get into stuff like that off the bat.

Keith is closer to my size and I could tell he was going super easy on me. I didn't manage to tap either of them out, but Keith watched me and Sean roll and said he saw at least five times where he thought Sean would tap me out and he didn't. I've never been tought many submission escapes, especially for the stuff he tried, so I guess that was pretty good. I did eventually get tapped out, with that head-to-the-jaw thing, some weird forearm choke, and a few kimuras/keylocks. But I learned a lot movement wise, i've never rolled with guys that experienced before.

Anyway, back to before, is it standard for guys to be digging their heads and elbows into you?
 
Typically, more experienced guys will save those tricks for guys of equal or greater skill. They should be worried about helping you learn the basic fundamentals and then once you have those down then throw in the little dirty tricks you might run into in a fight.

The guy may not be an asshole but is a product of his environment. Typically, what happens is that we do what we are taught. So if the guys who taught him to fight trained him that way then that is his view of things.
 
it depends on how hard you're rolling. some people consider it "inappropriate" to roll with neck cranks, knees on the head, etc... but it's hard to draw the line. some crossfaces can be pretty fundamental to a position (like when you're in top half guard and you crossface with your shoulder) despite being uncomfortable and some are uncomfortable and stupid to do (like forearm across someone's throat by someone in your guard, for it opens them up to get armbarred). if you're supposed to be rolling light (ie, in between drilling and rolling live or 100%), i would say try not to beat the shit out of your opponent. if you're rolling live in practice for mma or grappling competition, i'd say your only limits should be not doing things illegal in competition. that said, you still should be careful putting on submissions (especially ones like heelhooks and neck cranks). make sure you have them locked in well, and then SLOWLY and CAREFULLY start to crank them, waiting for a tap. i have no problem with a guy crossfacing my throat with his forearm super hard if i'm crossside on him or something similar, but i would be pissed if he cranked a heelhook as hard as possible the first time he locked it in.
 
I know that when I roll with certain people they feel that there is nothing wrong with a crossface or shoving your shoulder into a persons face. However, I do not put my knees or shins into their faces. And normally that is something that I don't even like/rely on doing because it normally just pisses your opponent off. But when you are rolling with someone more advanced than you there isn't really anything you can do. I would suggest not to crossface people that have more experience for the simple fact that they can probably get you in a pretty bad position as a means of revenge.
 
I would say that is way off for your 2nd week. Unless they are just trying to toughen u up or something. How are you supposed to learn the basics when elbows are in your face?
 
Chthon said:
First i'm with Sean, who has about 40lbs on me. When we clinch up, we're on our knees but he's doing Thai clinching stuff, digging his forehead into my face and trying to bend my neck around. He also tends to rest his elbows on people's faces when he has top position, puts his knee or shin on people's faces if they try to armbar him or something, stuff like that. Is that standard in grappling? I don't have a problem with it, Sean's a cool guy and if I did have a problem i'd tell him, but I was wondering if most people get into stuff like that off the bat.
Click to expand...
there always seems to be a few guys like that, or guys that will grab your clothes in no-gi (mega gay), or guys that'l try nerve pinches and other weird stuff. personally i don't mind using the kind of leverage you described, but only when it gets competitive (which it rarely does). if i'm just rolling for fun i won't use too much of that stuff.

Chthon said:
Keith is closer to my size and I could tell he was going super easy on me. I didn't manage to tap either of them out, but Keith watched me and Sean roll and said he saw at least five times where he thought Sean would tap me out and he didn't. I've never been tought many submission escapes, especially for the stuff he tried, so I guess that was pretty good. I did eventually get tapped out, with that head-to-the-jaw thing, some weird forearm choke, and a few kimuras/keylocks. But I learned a lot movement wise, i've never rolled with guys that experienced before.
Click to expand...

some general tips:

- try not to extend your arms or let them wander in any direction by themselves. also, try not to let him 'gang up' on one of your arms, i.e. use two of his arms against one of yours, because that's when the kimuras/keylocks always happen.

- i remember when i was new that i would try to hold a closed guard tight as a motherfucker. this might feel a bit weird as you're still new and will come naturally in time, but don't be afraid to open your guard if you're getting neck cranked/elbows-in-thighs. don't just lie back in your guard - be active. use your legs to push off his body, find angles, etc.

- if you are working a closed guard, always try and control him via under/overhooks on his arms and a hold on the back of his neck. if he's always posturing (sp) up to break/nullify your guard, try working a higher closed guard with your legs closer to his shoulders.

right now you should try and focus on moving from position to position. if you're rolling with heavier guys, get used to being on bottom and work on getting back to your guard if you wind up mounted or under side control.. but don't worry of course, it'l all come in time. :)
 
Thanks guys, that seems like some pretty good stuff. And i'll try to keep those tips in mind, jahred.
 
Basicly work on basics, don't be afraid to get tapped, and ask if you want to understand how/why your rolling buddy did something.
 
Q mystic said:
I would say that is way off for your 2nd week. Unless they are just trying to toughen u up or something. How are you supposed to learn the basics when elbows are in your face?
Click to expand...
Well, when you spar, you aren't learning the basics. You're training to pull off the moves you learn under high-pressure situations. And don't tell me having a guy push his elbows/legs/shins into your face doesn't make it hard to think... it won't hurt, anyway. I don't do it, personally.
 
i try not to do things that really hurt my opponent...I've noticed some wrestlers who first start doing bjj will put their chin in a lot of guys' eyes...i think thats kinda messed up...one thing i do against guys my level is bug the neck...b/c thats the only way i can get them to give me something..I NEVER do the canopener and i hate when people do it to me...I always counter that w/ a crossface. Since they are trying to cause me severe pain then i have no issues w/ doing it back to them...
 
jahred said:
there always seems to be a few guys like that, or guys that will grab your clothes in no-gi (mega gay), or guys that'l try nerve pinches and other weird stuff. personally i don't mind using the kind of leverage you described, but only when it gets competitive (which it rarely does). if i'm just rolling for fun i won't use too much of that stuff.



some general tips:

- try not to extend your arms or let them wander in any direction by themselves. also, try not to let him 'gang up' on one of your arms, i.e. use two of his arms against one of yours, because that's when the kimuras/keylocks always happen.

- i remember when i was new that i would try to hold a closed guard tight as a motherfucker. this might feel a bit weird as you're still new and will come naturally in time, but don't be afraid to open your guard if you're getting neck cranked/elbows-in-thighs. don't just lie back in your guard - be active. use your legs to push off his body, find angles, etc.

- if you are working a closed guard, always try and control him via under/overhooks on his arms and a hold on the back of his neck. if he's always posturing (sp) up to break/nullify your guard, try working a higher closed guard with your legs closer to his shoulders.

right now you should try and focus on moving from position to position. if you're rolling with heavier guys, get used to being on bottom and work on getting back to your guard if you wind up mounted or under side control.. but don't worry of course, it'l all come in time. :)
Click to expand...

you nailed it! the guard thing. that's my transition right now. this weekend that has been my revelation. i need to loosen the guard up and not mind battling from other positions. and yes when they're obviously better you should work on getting them to your guard
 
im new to bjj as well. i like to roll light, and not be super aggressive and spaz. #1. i dont want to hurt anyone because i am not experienced. #2. i want to learn the basics and work on position before i attempt any kind of sub. most guys ive rolled with go light, but sometimes you'll get a spaz or another noob that might have a few months experience on you that is out to prove something. IMO, there is no shame in tapping...especially when you're new.
 
You talking bout me, Snigg? ;-)

Chthon, keep at it. If your experience is anything like mine, you will beat up for two-three months before starting to learn not to get beat up. ;-) But it is worth it, I think. Those tips are good ones. In fact remember that outside of guard underhooks are generally good in most positions too IMHO. Also note that whenever someone diggs into my thighs using their elbows in guard, I simply grab near their elbows and pull or push their elbow away to releave the pressure. It works well for me, at least.
 
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