My Poker Goals

[Michaelangelo]

I felt pretty much the same, but these damn regulars get all riled up like luck is destined to be against them. Once it goes from venting to disrespectful, it starts irritating me. Fortunately I had my head phones so i just threw them on even though I didn't stay much longer

Funny thing about poker though, I leave on top with $1400 profit yet I can't seem to get pass the point of not capitalizing the profit on that hand. In hindsight, he probably would of continued to bet even if I checked, but I just felt that $100 was the maximum he would of called at that point.

AND on top of all of this that damn BB was yappin so much, I think I actually forgot to tip the dealer

You have to work on that. If you're not mentally comfortable it's not a good idea to keep playing. So you did the right thing in walking away.

As for beating yourself up, don't bother. It's not productive. You have to approach with a math mentality. The old man 3bet you, bet the flop and the turn. He is strong here, you have to take advantage on the turn and get it in. Same with the river, he is calling everything. He put in $350, he's committed to the pot.

 

[StevieSparkZ]

Can anyone offer their opinion on this big hand I played. 2/5 No limit. Live. I'm sitting on about $700 before the hand

I'm positioned next to the big blind and was dealt AcQc, raised $15.

Old man re raises up to $75..........Big blind goes all in with $85

I call

Flop comes 4c5c9c-----I flop the nut flush

I check, Old man bets $100, I call

turn 10d-----4c5c9c10d

I check, old man bets $175, I call

River Qh, I was a little unsure what to do at this point cause I did feel strength from the oldman, but did not know if I should just go all in with $300+ or value bet. Therefore, I value bet $100, old man calls.

Basically my 2 questions are: Was it a completely outlandish pre-flop call from me and should I of shoved on the river? In hindsight I probably would of got paid off, but would that of been the right move to make?

This is why slow playing usually hurts you so I have a few questions:

When you say you were positioned next to the BB, did you mean UTG or SB? (Im gonna assume UTG)
How much did the old man have in his stack?
How was he playing?

You raise to 15, he 3 bets to 75... (He 3 bets a gun raise = strength)

I don't love the call nor do I hate it because, but AQcc typically plays very well in single raised pots. Another live stereotype is that old guys tend to play very conservatively and when they bet/raise big they "have it." On top of that you are out of position.

I will put him on the top of his range, AA/KK/AK. (Also 3bet UTG raise)
I'll exclude QQ because you hold a Q.

The flop comes all clubs giving you a HUGE hand. You know for sure he does not have the nut flush. In this spot, I'd put him on KK with the Kc.

Back to slow playing, I have been going back and forth with 2 very solid players about me slow playing. They have told me that I play big hands poorly because I try to slow play too much. The question one of them asked me was "tell me what does slow playing achieve?" I didn't have a good answer at the time until I saw one of Phil Galfond's youtube videos the other day.

Phil flops a big hand and says something along the lines of, "Slow playing is a big part of poker, but too many people slow play w/o a plan, they check to conceal the strength of their hand but you have to consider how the hand can play out."

This really made me re-think my game because now that I look back at it, there were so many times where I missed out on value because people check behind and I am left with a smaller pot on later streets.

So I want to apply that question I was asked to this hand....What does slow playing achieve here and how do I see the hand playing out?

You flop the nut flush and you check and he bets. Great, but the board is monotone all clubs so it's scary as it is. Now, consider you having the ace of clubs. What kind of hand would call a flop bet out of position in a 3 bet pot?

The hand that makes sense is anything that contains the Ac. He has to know that, you aren't calling that flop with nothing. Now to Phil Galfond's question as to how the hand can play out.

If a 4th club hits the turn, do you expect to get paid most of the time? Consider everything we've looked at thus far and a 4th club is definitely an action killer. Why else would you call a bet out of position?

You would lose value if he had flopped a set (prob 99) as he would check the turn behind and you'd have a smaller pot on the river. Does he pay you off with a set on the river? Possibly, but it will be a lot less than if all the money went in on the flop/turn.

I might have a bit more but it's 4:49am here and I'm at work, but it's just something to think about when you consider the image of all players and flop/turn play dynamics.


EDIT: Also, what did they give you crap about after? Just the fact you had a better hand? If anything, I feel they'd give you crap about the way you played it slow.

 

[Bme26]

This is why slow playing usually hurts you so I have a few questions:

When you say you were positioned next to the BB, did you mean UTG or SB? (Im gonna assume UTG)
How much did the old man have in his stack?
How was he playing?

You raise to 15, he 3 bets to 75... (He 3 bets a gun raise = strength)

I don't love the call nor do I hate it because, but AQcc typically plays very well in single raised pots. Another live stereotype is that old guys tend to play very conservatively and when they bet/raise big they "have it." On top of that you are out of position.

I will put him on the top of his range, AA/KK/AK. (Also 3bet UTG raise)
I'll exclude QQ because you hold a Q.

The flop comes all clubs giving you a HUGE hand. You know for sure he does not have the nut flush. In this spot, I'd put him on KK with the Kc.

Back to slow playing, I have been going back and forth with 2 very solid players about me slow playing. They have told me that I play big hands poorly because I try to slow play too much. The question one of them asked me was "tell me what does slow playing achieve?" I didn't have a good answer at the time until I saw one of Phil Galfond's youtube videos the other day.

Phil flops a big hand and says something along the lines of, "Slow playing is a big part of poker, but too many people slow play w/o a plan, they check to conceal the strength of their hand but you have to consider how the hand can play out."

This really made me re-think my game because now that I look back at it, there were so many times where I missed out on value because people check behind and I am left with a smaller pot on later streets.

So I want to apply that question I was asked to this hand....What does slow playing achieve here and how do I see the hand playing out?

You flop the nut flush and you check and he bets. Great, but the board is monotone all clubs so it's scary as it is. Now, consider you having the ace of clubs. What kind of hand would call a flop bet out of position in a 3 bet pot?

The hand that makes sense is anything that contains the Ac. He has to know that, you aren't calling that flop with nothing. Now to Phil Galfond's question as to how the hand can play out.

If a 4th club hits the turn, do you expect to get paid most of the time? Consider everything we've looked at thus far and a 4th club is definitely an action killer. Why else would you call a bet out of position?

You would lose value if he had flopped a set (prob 99) as he would check the turn behind and you'd have a smaller pot on the river. Does he pay you off with a set on the river? Possibly, but it will be a lot less than if all the money went in on the flop/turn.

I might have a bit more but it's 4:49am here and I'm at work, but it's just something to think about when you consider the image of all players and flop/turn play dynamics.


EDIT: Also, what did they give you crap about after? Just the fact you had a better hand? If anything, I feel they'd give you crap about the way you played it slow.

Thanks for the detailed response man!

Honestly, there were only a couple players at the table that were playing aggressively and the old man was one of them, believe it or not. He was sitting on probably $1200 pre-flop. What I saw as benefit of slow playing was each check, he was investing, 100, 175, further committing himself to the pot. I honestly felt on the turn when i checked that he was going to come out stronger, if not a lot stronger than he did.

It didn't work out the ideal way I wanted and he only came out with $175, therefore I think that influenced my weak river value bet. I just felt that he felt that his hand lost the strength he thought it had, therefore now he just wanted to reach the showdown without unloading the bank.

I may need to revaluate the way ill slow play at times, but I still feel it is a good method against aggressive big stacked players. But if the board paired and somehow he hit a boat or something then I'd definitely be kicking myself in the butt.

In hindsight, I do believe the right play was to check-raise shove on the turn.

Also, regarding the BB now that I've thougt about it. The old man never showed his hand, but the guys around him were saying K high flush. Whether they saw the hand or not, I dont know. But according to that, what was he holding preflop if he already had the flush? He couldnt of had AK because I had the Ac.......if he was telling the truth the strongest hand he could of had was KcJc, which doesnt make sense with a $75 raise.

I thought about this last night, but regardless of what he had I was just more focused on the way I played it.

 

[StevieSparkZ]

Thanks for the detailed response man!

Honestly, there were only a couple players at the table that were playing aggressively and the old man was one of them, believe it or not. He was sitting on probably $1200 pre-flop. What I saw as benefit of slow playing was each check, he was investing, 100, 175, further committing himself to the pot. I honestly felt on the turn when i checked that he was going to come out stronger, if not a lot stronger than he did.

It didn't work out the ideal way I wanted and he only came out with $175, therefore I think that influenced my weak river value bet. I just felt that he felt that his hand lost the strength he thought it had, therefore now he just wanted to reach the showdown without unloading the bank.

I may need to revaluate the way ill slow play at times, but I still feel it is a good method against aggressive big stacked players. But if the board paired and somehow he hit a boat or something then I'd definitely be kicking myself in the butt.

In hindsight, I do believe the right play was to check-raise shove on the turn.

Also, regarding the BB now that I've thougt about it. The old man never showed his hand, but the guys around him were saying K high flush. Whether they saw the hand or not, I dont know. But according to that, what was he holding preflop if he already had the flush? He couldnt of had AK because I had the Ac.......if he was telling the truth the strongest hand he could of had was KcJc, which doesnt make sense with a $75 raise.

I thought about this last night, but regardless of what he had I was just more focused on the way I played it.

The issue with slow playing is that you often times leave money on the table. Were you not playing it faster because you were afraid the board would pair and he'd have a boat?

 

[Bme26]

Honestly I didn't place him on hitting the boat if the board paired. I was just basically using that as an example of slow playing gone wrong. I slowed played because I thought his progressive betting was going to be at least double what he had put out on the flop

 

[StevieSparkZ]

Also, you said he had 1200 when the hand started and that he's actually aggressive. KJ suited isn't too far off, considering he has position, a huge stack and image.