My brief experience eating less carbs

[BoxingFan123]

It'd be the same if somebody started a thread saying how much better they felt after they gave up meat...good for them but how does that anecdote help anybody or even further a discussion!??!

 

[KILL KILL]

The conclusion from the Cereal Grains: Humanity’s Double Edged Sword by Loren Cordain published by the World Review of Nutrition and Dietetics in 1999 that I posted on the previous page pretty much sums up those articles if you can't be bothered to actually read them.

I have about two or three posts left in me before I get bored of this thread, but I compiled some grain studies that you may want to check out.

What Did Our Ancestors Eat?

Ancestral diets varied widely in terms of both food selection and macronutrient composition, depending upon foods available geographically. Humans have developed to consume various foods from various regions. Claiming that we have not evolved to eat certain foods because “our ancestors didn’t eat them” is short sighted because there was no single method of eating. People ate whatever the fuck they had to stave off death, including carb heavy foods.

Those that lived in warmer climates would have easy access to carb laden fruits. Those in northern regions would have access to roots, nuts, potatoes, etc. The earliest evidence that humans have been able to control fire dates back 1.6 million years to Koobi Flora, Kenya, so it wouldn’t be too far fetched to assume that early man had the ability to cook or boil foods like potatoes, legumes, or whatever else they could get their hands on.

Research has shown that humans have been consuming grains for far longer than most think.

http://www.sciencemag.org/content/326/5960/1680.short

Mercader et al shows that humans dating back 105,000 years had a heavy reliance of starchy plants and seeds.

The role of starchy plants in early hominin diets and when the culinary processing of starches began have been difficult to track archaeologically. Seed collecting is conventionally perceived to have been an irrelevant activity among the Pleistocene foragers of southern Africa, on the grounds of both technological difficulty in the processing of grains and the belief that roots, fruits, and nuts, not cereals, were the basis for subsistence for the past 100,000 years and further back in time. A large assemblage of starch granules has been retrieved from the surfaces of Middle Stone Age stone tools from Mozambique, showing that early Homo sapiens relied on grass seeds starting at least 105,000 years ago, including those of sorghum grasses.

Revedin et al found evidence of starch grains on the surfaces of tools from a variety of geographical areas ranging from northeastern Europe to the Mediterranean, dating to the mid-upper Paleolithic era. The researchers suggest that plant food processing (including flour) was a widespread practice across Europe from at least 30,000 years ago.

http://www.researchgate.net/publication/267763904_New_technologies_for_plant_food_processing_in_the_Gravettian

There’s evidence that Neanderthals, who were likely bred out by homo sapiens, consumed a variety of starch grains, including date palms, legumes, and grass seeds (which we still eat today).

http://www.pnas.org/content/108/2/486.abstract

Here we report direct evidence for Neanderthal consumption of a variety of plant foods, in the form of phytoliths and starch grains recovered from dental calculus of Neanderthal skeletons from Shanidar Cave, Iraq, and Spy Cave, Belgium. Some of the plants are typical of recent modern human diets, including date palms (Phoenix spp.), legumes, and grass seeds (Triticeae)

Many of the grass seed starches showed damage that is a distinctive marker of cooking. Our results indicate that in both warm eastern Mediterranean and cold northwestern European climates, and across their latitudinal range, Neanderthals made use of the diverse plant foods available in their local environment and transformed them into more easily digestible foodstuffs in part through cooking them, suggesting an overall sophistication in Neanderthal dietary regimes.

An ancient cite in Israel, dating back 23,000 years found structures used for cereal plant storage. So, not only were humans eating grains, but they were eating them in large quantities.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC470712/


Grains are Unhealthy

There has been plenty of evidence from both observational research and experimental research that have shown a multitude of therapeutic and protective health benefits of whole grains which including, improved blood lipid profile, glucose control, reduced risk of cancer, stroke, and heart disease…Now, if the body is somehow inadequate to handle such foods, then this shouldn’t be possible, right?

Reduced risk of colorectal cancer
http://www.bmj.com/content/343/bmj.d6617

Reduced risk of coronary heart disease and stroke
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16670693

Improved glycemic control
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15162131

Lowered risk of Type II Diabetes, cardiovascular disease, and weight gain
http://jn.nutrition.org/content/142/7/1304.short

I have about 10-15 more I could add, but I think you get the point.

Some grains DO have phytates and oxalates which are the plant’s natural defense mechanism…Some do. As do SOME green leafy vegetables as well. Although they are said to reduce zinc and iron absorption, this hasn’t even been shown with vegetarians in nations with diverse food supplies, so the effect of these “anti-nutrients” is minimal at best. These concerns should not be a problem for those that eat a varied omnivorous diet.

One of the main concerns of grains is that it causes inflammation. There have been a few studies that correlate refined grains to inflammation, but there have been even more studies that show an inverse correlation between whole grains and inflammation.

Improved glycemic control, lipids, and reduction of inflammation
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16469984

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/87/1/79.full

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17513398

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20685951

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/92/4/733.full.pdf

However, the consumption of grains (whether it be refined or whole) has shown to have more of a neutral effect on systemic inflammation than a negative or a positive.

What About Gluten Intolerance?

It’s estimated that only 0.3% to 1.2% of the population actually suffer from celiac disease
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21181303

Gluten intolerance (NCGS) really has no defined criteria. It’s not even clear if it truly exists to begin with. However, the occurrence of Celiac disease, NCGS, and wheat allergy combined, is estimated to only affect approximately 10% of the general population.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20089789

That being said, there are plenty of grains out there that DON’T contain any gluten at all (i.e. oats, rice, buckwheat, corn, quinoa, and several others).

Earlier in this thread I've shown that the human body does have the proper mechanisms to digest starches via amalayse, which actually increases the more we eat grains.

You can argue that carbs somehow cause obesity until your blue in the face. I've posted countless info in countless other threads that prove otherwise, so I'm really not interested in rehashing again. If you still believe the human body is still incapable of handling grains, then I doubt there's anything I can post that will change your mind.

 

[selfcritical]

I never said that our body can't eat grains, I said it wasn't designed to consume as much carbohydrates as most people do today.
Our bodies are also capable of digesting alcohol, even large amounts of it, and even able to process drugs. Are you going to say that our bodies are meant to consume alcohol and drugs just because it can?

There's a difference between what our bodies 'can' consume, and what they're 'meant' to consume.

What does "designed to" mean in the context of something that was not actually designed by an intelligence and has no intentionality? Because it seems like a way of just having an observer project an essential nature onto something that doesn't exist in any of it's properties. The human body wasn't "designed" to do anything. It's properties are an emergent property of evolutionary pressures, mutation, and breeding.

 

[ScriptReadsMe]

Rice is a staple food in many Asian countries and their inhabitants will probably outlive us. Just saying

 

[Pope Leo VII]

Never go more then a day or two without ODing on rice.

Try and eat it with every meal, so damn delicious..and filling.

 

[ScriptReadsMe]

Never go more then a day or two without ODing on rice.

Try and eat it with every meal, so damn delicious..and filling.

This guy here knows what's up.

 

[KILL KILL]

Rice is a staple food in many Asian countries and their inhabitants will probably outlive us. Just saying

This reminds me of an article from National Geographic called THE BLUE ZONES: LESSONS FOR LIVING LONGER FROM THE PEOPLE WHO’VE LIVED THE LONGEST, by Dan Buettner. It's an article on studies of "Blue Zones" which are populations with the highest life expectancy, highest centenarian rates, and lowest rates of chronic and degenerative disease. There are 5 "Blue Zones". Below is a basic synopsis of diet for each zone. Obviously, there is a lot more to health and longevity than simply diet, but I thought it was interesting enough to add to this thread.

Ikaria, Greece - Eats a variation of the Mediterranean diet, rich in olive oil, fruits, vegetables, whole grains, and a little bit of fish and dairy (usually in the form of goats milk). About 2 glasses of wine a day.

Seventh Day Adventists in Loma Linda, California - Vegetarian diet rich in beans and nuts, low EPA/DHA intake, plant derived omega 6's, and no alcohol.

Nicoya, Costa Rica: White rice, black beans, corn tortillas, squash, eggs, and lots of fruit. More meat (chicken and pork) and fruit than the other blue zones.

Sardinia, Italy - (Where Franco Columu came from). Plant dominant diet, lots of wine, fava beans, and barley. Goat milk and goat cheese are staples. Modest amount of meat and fish.

Okinawa Japan - Plant dominated diet; rice, seaweed, sweet potatoes, soy beans and soy byproducts (tofu). Raw sugar is eaten with snacks. Very carb heavy.

What do these places have in common?
- Carbohydrates are the dominant macronutrient (mostly from starches)
- They don't over eat
- Lots of veggies
- beans
- 4 out of 5 consume alcohol regularly
- All 5 consume grains and legumes regularly
- All digest grains just fine

Obviously, nutrition is only a small piece of the puzzle. All of the groups stay very phsyically active, have low stress, enjoy active social / family lives, etc.

 

[ScriptReadsMe]

This reminds me of an article from National Geographic called THE BLUE ZONES: LESSONS FOR LIVING LONGER FROM THE PEOPLE WHO

 

[AWESOMEACE]

I'm not the type to do any kind of diet regime. If I want to lose weight I eat less.... if I want to gain weight I eat more. If you know me I'm the type who would usually mock a diet of 'not eating this' and 'eating more of that'.

A friend who I respect had started this stone age diet program. It annoyed me because he's the type, like me, to not waste his time with that.
He started telling me how he was feeling better on it and was giving me all of these pros of doing it. I just told him to "stop" because it started to sound like he was pitching a book.

So he challenged me to give it a shot for a bit.

I took him up on it and cut carbs down to almost nothing. I actually liked the options because I could have steak, bacon, eggs.... had fruits and vegetables and nuts.
I did notice that I didn't feel all that sluggish in the late morning at work. Usually I'll have like toast, cereal.... that kind of stuff.

So, I did that for two days. It didn't feel like a big shock to my system. It was only two days and I did feel a bit more better.

But I had no intention of keeping this up. So the next day for lunch I went to an Italian restaurant and had some pasta and other carby stuff.... and I felt like crap. I felt 100lbs heavier, weezy, exhausted.

Now, I have a pretty much all carb diet for the most part. I only went off of it for 2 days. But that one meal I had after those two days, my typical high carb diet, took everything out of me.
My friend said that it was because of the carbs. I wasn't convinced. Thought maybe it was something in the food. Again, I've had carbs for day after day for years.

He was certain it was due to the carbs. So I started the whole thing over again to prove him wrong. Went very low on the carbs for 2 more days. The next day I had my son's birthday so I went off of the low carb diet for that.... and again, I felt terrible after eating those carbs. That night I had 3 intense nightmares. I woke up feeling dead to the world and called in sick to work.

As I said, I'm not the type to care at all about if you eat more carbs or protein or whatever.... but this was pretty eye opening for me.

I have had very similar experiences, if you do it for too long, my experience is you get "carbohydrate brain" you basically feel in a fog and have a hard time concentrating. May just be me, but its what I have noticed.

 

[Badger67]

Nice post. I don't know how much soy Japanese eat, but I do know it's usually some fermented soy food like Tamari, Miso and Natto. I don't believe raw tofu is very popular over there, though i may be wrong. Hope some japanese national sheds light on this

From my research on Soy/Tofu, it makes up a very small portion of their diet (25-30g a week). It's meant to be a compliment to a dish, not the staple. Women use to use it to control male virility by increasing the intake of it in their husbands food, and, there's more than enough research studies on soy to show its raises in estrogen levels. Okinawan's also eat a shit ton of fish (protein/fat/meat).

"According to the California Department of Health, in 1975 soy only accounted for 9 grams of total legume consumption per day in China and Japan, suggesting it as a minor source of nutrition for these cultures during this time period and previous"

- Nutrition during Pregnancy and Lactation. California Department of Health, 1975 Petrakis, N.L. et al.,(1996). "Stimulatory influence of soy protein isolate on breast secretion in pre- and post-menopausal women", Cancer Epid. Bio. 5: 785-794.

According to them, average of 60-65g a week. So not much in comparison to us westerners who eat soy fortified/byproduct food.

 

[KILL KILL]

From my research on Soy/Tofu, it makes up a very small portion of their diet (25-30g a week). It's meant to be a compliment to a dish, not the staple. Women use to use it to control male virility by increasing the intake of it in their husbands food, and, there's more than enough research studies on soy to show its raises in estrogen levels. Okinawan's also eat a shit ton of fish (protein/fat/meat).

"According to the California Department of Health, in 1975 soy only accounted for 9 grams of total legume consumption per day in China and Japan, suggesting it as a minor source of nutrition for these cultures during this time period and previous"

- Nutrition during Pregnancy and Lactation. California Department of Health, 1975 Petrakis, N.L. et al.,(1996). "Stimulatory influence of soy protein isolate on breast secretion in pre- and post-menopausal women", Cancer Epid. Bio. 5: 785-794.

According to them, average of 60-65g a week. So not much in comparison to us westerners who eat soy fortified/byproduct food.

Plus, it's gross.

 

[Badger67]

*Fist bump*

Yep.

 

[lts5025]

I have about two or three posts left in me before I get bored of this thread, but I compiled some grain studies that you may want to check out.

What Did Our Ancestors Eat?

Ancestral diets varied widely in terms of both food selection and macronutrient composition, depending upon foods available geographically. Humans have developed to consume various foods from various regions. Claiming that we have not evolved to eat certain foods because

 

[KILL KILL]

Great post. This should be stickied.

you and Badger deserve a fist bump

That post won't be stickied. There are too many anti-grain eaters here and that would serve as contradictory evidence.

 

[Badger67]

There's a lot of things that should be stickied in here, unfortunately it would be an entire page long.

I'll be making a large creatine post in a few weeks that i hope gets stickied.

 

[KILL KILL]

There's a lot of things that should be stickied in here, unfortunately it would be an entire page long.

I'll be making a large creatine post in a few weeks that i hope gets stickied.

I feel like we should have more stickies because every few weeks, we rehash the same shit.

 

[Seriously-Dead]

I feel like we should have more stickies because every few weeks, we rehash the same shit.

That would require an actual moderator who gives a shit about this forum.

 

[Sinister]

^For realz. Back in my day when we wanted something "stuck" we messaged the moderator to propose it, and barring it didn't fit only a single side of a nutritional agenda, it would be stuck if it was good information that very well could benefit potential readers on a general level.

Too bad there's no one around here now like that.

P.S. - Stickies don't stop the same shit from being re-hashed over and over. A decade of doing this, you come to realize that.

 

[Sarumyan]

What are you complaining about? Without "rehashing" old shit, this forum would completely dead. At least you regulars have something to talk about hah.

 

[Pride23]

Great post. This should be stickied.

If the actual studies were read and not just an abstract I am not sure everyone would think the same.