Strength/Mass My abs aren't getting any stronger. What am I doing wrong?

[DEVILsSON]

Hey can you tell me if leg raises for 15-20 reps with 20-25 lbs in between my legs is good ab strength?

I am not quite sure what you mean.

So you're hanging off a pull up bar with extra weight while doing leg raises?

If I am understanding it correctly then the weight doesn't seem to move so the weight doesn't play a major impact on your abs beyond testing your grip and perhaps raising isometric tension/stability aspects.

For it to make sense you'd have to find a way to attach the weight to your feet.

 

[godhatesacoward]

https://imagely.mirafit.co.uk/wp/wp-content/uploads/2024/12/leg-raise-in-a-Mirafit-VKR-Machine-1024x683.jpg

like these with the machine

 

[DEVILsSON]

https://imagely.mirafit.co.uk/wp/wp-content/uploads/2024/12/leg-raise-in-a-Mirafit-VKR-Machine-1024x683.jpg

like these with the machine

For it to make sense you'd have to do something like attach/connect a cable to your ankles(via straps that you can get) and do V leg raises(which focuses on both abs and compression strength). You can probably do soemething similar with bands.

So using something like this(except on Temu or Ali so that it's <5$):

Gymreapers Knöchelriemen - Schwarz (Paar)

Das Gymreapers Knöchelriemen-Paar hilft Ihnen, einen stärkeren und schlankeren Unterkörper zu erreichen. Verwenden Sie unsere Knöchelriemen für Kabelmaschinen, befestigen Sie sie um Ihren Knöchel für Rückschläge und mehr.

www.gymreapers.com

Then you can hook it up to a couple light bands (maybe 10lb to each ankle) and do leg raises while focusing on the upper 1/2 of the range as we've discussed. You can connect the other end(s) of the bands to the bottom of the dip station or a couple DBs/KBs/etc.

Bands are actually a good choice since they provide more resistance as they become more stretched which is what you need for the upper 1/2 of the ROM.

I may give something like this a try at some point just to see how it feels even though I am quite weak in this exercise.

 

[Banana&Coffee]

no worries on getting back right away , happens all the time, I don't think anyone counts on it or at least they prob shouldn't, people have lives. Me too, I only come on here on my laptop so ain't always handy.
None of this is simple but if you are 70kg? How tall (just curious)? Describe your activity in a week in a bit of detail including times. If you post that up you'll get some input here I'm sure.
I'd answer right now but what I suggest is a little bit intense meaning there is some strictness and work involved, counting macros, weighing and measuring food etc. It's too much of a PITA for most people unless they are very serious. In general I'd want you to figure out your TDEE (google), and use that to make an educated guess about where to start and then dial it in. Total daily calories, then Protein, then fill in the rest with an essential amount of fats and carbs.
You can certainly make improvements with a more rough approach though.

Leucine- very simplified answer, you need to ingest a minimum amount to "flip the switch" that starts the muscle building process.

Thanks, I appreciate the consideration.

I'm 172 cm, or 5'8. I work out once in the morning, and then a second time after work. I'm a writer, but I make it a point to walk around whenever I can, including to and from work. My first workout is cardio, and it basically consists of me walking up and down the stairs in my house for 30 minutes straight. My second workout consists of rows and leg raises using two chairs, push-ups and Bulgarian split-squats (working up towards pistol squats). And I'm working on various isometrics off to the side as well as karate on the weekends.

I don't actually know what my weight is to figure out my TDEE, but I've been meaning to buy a bathroom scale anyway. I can let you know more once I do. I'm also in my late twenties, if that helps.

Regarding leucine, gotcha. That makes sense.

To be honest, I'm feeling rather bummed out that I've been messing up my protein intake this whole time. I feel like I'm wasting my efforts a little. I can always progressively overload in my workouts, and I do think I put on some mass, but I guess I could have been doing more with it this whole time. That sucks.

EDIT: Should probably clarify in case it's confusing, but I don't know my exact weight. 70kg is from about a year or two ago before my old scale broke, and for whatever reason, I chose not to replace it. But I'm still probably somewhere around there.

 

[1rawdog]

Thanks, I appreciate the consideration.

I'm 172 cm, or 5'8. I work out once in the morning, and then a second time after work. I'm a writer, but I make it a point to walk around whenever I can, including to and from work. My first workout is cardio, and it basically consists of me walking up and down the stairs in my house for 30 minutes straight. My second workout consists of rows and leg raises using two chairs, push-ups and Bulgarian split-squats (working up towards pistol squats). And I'm working on various isometrics off to the side as well as karate on the weekends.

I don't actually know what my weight is to figure out my TDEE, but I've been meaning to buy a bathroom scale anyway. I can let you know more once I do. I'm also in my late twenties, if that helps.

Regarding leucine, gotcha. That makes sense.

To be honest, I'm feeling rather bummed out that I've been messing up my protein intake this whole time. I feel like I'm wasting my efforts a little. I can always progressively overload in my workouts, and I do think I put on some mass, but I guess I could have been doing more with it this whole time. That sucks.

EDIT: Should probably clarify in case it's confusing, but I don't know my exact weight. 70kg is from about a year or two ago before my old scale broke, and for whatever reason, I chose not to replace it. But I'm still probably somewhere around there.

Ok, no offence but keeping in mind you train less intensely than what I am used to when I think of someone trying to gain muscle so I've backed shit down a bit from that as a starting point.

You can keep it simple but you'd have to track calories and macros somehow, even if just roughly. I'd suggest it can be a really big advantage to take this seriously and put some effort into it but as mentioned it can be a lot of work at first. But man as a permanent lifestyle change not many things rival it for effectiveness towards good health. Honestly for most people you only have to be super strict about it for a few months then your new habits should be ingrained. Myself I only do it about 2x a year jsut to make sure I've not wandered off track.
Use an app like Myfitnesspal but double check the often wrong crowdsourced data they provide.
Enough preaching.
Rough Guide:
Split into about 4 meals a day fairly evenly divided.
Total-
Calories 2300
Protein 185g
Carbs 275
Fats 55
I'd stick with that for 28 days then re-assess
Get setup - figure how ur gonna count, what u gonna eat, get it in the house.
BEFORE you launch the program -
Being careful to be consistent with tightness and keeping the tape parallel to the floor, measure your waist in 3 places 3inches below the navel, at the navel and 3 inches above. Always do it first thing in the am and after shitting if you shit at that time.
Measure all that Before the start and then 28 days later. If those numbers go up by more than a half inch or so you probably are getting fat. Cut a couple hundred cals and go another 28 days, repeat as needed. If the measurement gets smaller and that makes you happy and you are not getting weaker, carry on.
CONSISTENCY IS KEY. The sooner you nail this without fucking up the sooner you can get on with your life lol. The more consistent your activity level is and the more accurately you measure your food the faster that will happen.
One more time - this is not the most optimal plan, you are settling, but it is less work and should get you somewhere in the right direction.

PS Core exercises are great but I and many others have developed great (blow resistant) strength and good abs by putting a lot of heavy weight on our shoulders, I have hardly trained my abs directly ever.

 

[Kforcer]

Resistance training will make them more visible. I guess I tend to be relatively lean most of the time, but recently, my weight went up to 200+ for some reason, probably related to the fact that I just quit doing cardio for a while or something and I'd say that while, in the low 190's presently, my abs are certainly more visible, they kept a good deal of visibility even at that weight because they're pronounced from doing lots of resistance training with them, including periods where I did tons of weight ab workouts.

They're like any muscle group that way. They will grow and become more pronounced if subjected to hypertrophy-based training, though people's bodies vary in terms of the outcome. When I relax my abs, even at a higher bodyweight, the muscles are pretty visible because they've grown in reaction to the training, but its also basically a pot belly when I'm not pulling it in (which I do on instinct, basically 24/7). A lot of people don't want that pot-belly look. But if you aren't afraid of it, then that's one route to go: hit your abs in a manner similar to the way you'd hit any muscle group that you want to grow...and they will get more visible. But they also might protrude as well, like mine do.

 

[Banana&Coffee]

Ok, no offence but keeping in mind you train less intensely than what I am used to when I think of someone trying to gain muscle so I've backed shit down a bit from that as a starting point.

You can keep it simple but you'd have to track calories and macros somehow, even if just roughly. I'd suggest it can be a really big advantage to take this seriously and put some effort into it but as mentioned it can be a lot of work at first. But man as a permanent lifestyle change not many things rival it for effectiveness towards good health. Honestly for most people you only have to be super strict about it for a few months then your new habits should be ingrained. Myself I only do it about 2x a year jsut to make sure I've not wandered off track.
Use an app like Myfitnesspal but double check the often wrong crowdsourced data they provide.
Enough preaching.
Rough Guide:
Split into about 4 meals a day fairly evenly divided.
Total-
Calories 2300
Protein 185g
Carbs 275
Fats 55
I'd stick with that for 28 days then re-assess
Get setup - figure how ur gonna count, what u gonna eat, get it in the house.
BEFORE you launch the program -
Being careful to be consistent with tightness and keeping the tape parallel to the floor, measure your waist in 3 places 3inches below the navel, at the navel and 3 inches above. Always do it first thing in the am and after shitting if you shit at that time.
Measure all that Before the start and then 28 days later. If those numbers go up by more than a half inch or so you probably are getting fat. Cut a couple hundred cals and go another 28 days, repeat as needed. If the measurement gets smaller and that makes you happy and you are not getting weaker, carry on.
CONSISTENCY IS KEY. The sooner you nail this without fucking up the sooner you can get on with your life lol. The more consistent your activity level is and the more accurately you measure your food the faster that will happen.
One more time - this is not the most optimal plan, you are settling, but it is less work and should get you somewhere in the right direction.

PS Core exercises are great but I and many others have developed great (blow resistant) strength and good abs by putting a lot of heavy weight on our shoulders, I have hardly trained my abs directly ever.

Hey, thanks for helping to figure all that out and for getting into the weeds a bit. I did the tape thing as instructed. We'll see how it goes.

As for your postscript, do you mean by training barbell squats and such? I'm not really a member of any gym at the moment, and to be honest, I enjoy doing isolation work for my core, but I appreciate the tip. I imagine you learn to brace the abs quite hard when doing barbell lifts and such?

Also, not that it matters so much, but out of curiosity, why do you prefer dialling in more carbs than fat? I'm just curious, cos I know there's plenty of different schools of thought on this. I checked out some TDEE calculator sites, and it seems like most of them offer different assessments for high carb versus high fat diets.

 

[Banana&Coffee]

Resistance training will make them more visible. I guess I tend to be relatively lean most of the time, but recently, my weight went up to 200+ for some reason, probably related to the fact that I just quit doing cardio for a while or something and I'd say that while, in the low 190's presently, my abs are certainly more visible, they kept a good deal of visibility even at that weight because they're pronounced from doing lots of resistance training with them, including periods where I did tons of weight ab workouts.

They're like any muscle group that way. They will grow and become more pronounced if subjected to hypertrophy-based training, though people's bodies vary in terms of the outcome. When I relax my abs, even at a higher bodyweight, the muscles are pretty visible because they've grown in reaction to the training, but its also basically a pot belly when I'm not pulling it in (which I do on instinct, basically 24/7). A lot of people don't want that pot-belly look. But if you aren't afraid of it, then that's one route to go: hit your abs in a manner similar to the way you'd hit any muscle group that you want to grow...and they will get more visible. But they also might protrude as well, like mine do.

That's so interesting! Come to think of it, I have actually noticed that, specifically on crossfit competitors. But it's weird, because gymnasts and climbers don't really have that pot belly look, and their core muscles are obviously strong as hell. But I wonder if that has more to do with the type of resistance training/hypertrophy work, i.e. free weights versus bodyweights? Hm.

 

[Kforcer]

That's so interesting! Come to think of it, I have actually noticed that, specifically on crossfit competitors. But it's weird, because gymnasts and climbers don't really have that pot belly look, and their core muscles are obviously strong as hell. But I wonder if that has more to do with the type of resistance training/hypertrophy work, i.e. free weights versus bodyweights? Hm.

well, if the gymnast is a rings specialist, part of it might be because people underestimate how much biceps, shoulders, chest and back muscles figure into what they do, so that generally, proportionately, those body parts might visually make the core look likes pronounced, the same way broad shoulders make a waist look smaller.

 

[1rawdog]

Hey, thanks for helping to figure all that out and for getting into the weeds a bit. I did the tape thing as instructed. We'll see how it goes.

As for your postscript, do you mean by training barbell squats and such? I'm not really a member of any gym at the moment, and to be honest, I enjoy doing isolation work for my core, but I appreciate the tip. I imagine you learn to brace the abs quite hard when doing barbell lifts and such?

Also, not that it matters so much, but out of curiosity, why do you prefer dialling in more carbs than fat? I'm just curious, cos I know there's plenty of different schools of thought on this. I checked out some TDEE calculator sites, and it seems like most of them offer different assessments for high carb versus high fat diets.

Correct assessment about abs, more than one way to skin a cat. I'm enjoying @Kforcer 's part of the discussion. There is some validity to the viewpoint that heavy spinal loading can leave one with a blocky looking waist, less V taper when viewed from the front, but I think that is not so specific to the rectus abdominis itself but rather more from the other core muscles, obliques and transverse abdominis.
Building muscle one way or another sounds like it will help your cause in your case it would probably be considered more "sports specific" to go with those other exercises.

Fats vs Carbs. I think it's important to satisfy the bodies minimum for fats, hormonal and joint health come to mind for an athlete, so that number reflects that for your size and you shouldn't go lower. Make sure it includes a bunch of the "good" fats. While you don't really need any carbs they are the most efficient fuel for intense exercise, most people like them and seeing as The P and F have minimums they naturally become the easiest macro to modulate for weight gain or loss. Plus you can make choices about type of carbs to take in with regard to activity timing.
You absolutely can change the F and C ratio to your liking but respect the F minimum and the total cal number, remember that Fats have about 9 cal per gram while Carbs have about 4.

 

[1rawdog]

That's so interesting! Come to think of it, I have actually noticed that, specifically on crossfit competitors. But it's weird, because gymnasts and climbers don't really have that pot belly look, and their core muscles are obviously strong as hell. But I wonder if that has more to do with the type of resistance training/hypertrophy work, i.e. free weights versus bodyweights? Hm.

Remember too that gymnast have a reason to hold them in, there is an aesthetic component to their competition. Climbers probably benefit from holding then in too in some situations.
The other thing is that comparing any muscle to itself if it gets bigger, more actual muscle tissue, it got stronger but it can also get stronger while actually getting smaller as measured with the tape measure. Kind of a tricky thing lolz

 

[Banana&Coffee]

well, if the gymnast is a rings specialist, part of it might be because people underestimate how much biceps, shoulders, chest and back muscles figure into what they do, so that generally, proportionately, those body parts might visually make the core look likes pronounced, the same way broad shoulders make a waist look smaller.

Ah, that makes sense.

Correct assessment about abs, more than one way to skin a cat. I'm enjoying @Kforcer 's part of the discussion. There is some validity to the viewpoint that heavy spinal loading can leave one with a blocky looking waist, less V taper when viewed from the front, but I think that is not so specific to the rectus abdominis itself but rather more from the other core muscles, obliques and transverse abdominis.
Building muscle one way or another sounds like it will help your cause in your case it would probably be considered more "sports specific" to go with those other exercises.

Fats vs Carbs. I think it's important to satisfy the bodies minimum for fats, hormonal and joint health come to mind for an athlete, so that number reflects that for your size and you shouldn't go lower. Make sure it includes a bunch of the "good" fats. While you don't really need any carbs they are the most efficient fuel for intense exercise, most people like them and seeing as The P and F have minimums they naturally become the easiest macro to modulate for weight gain or loss. Plus you can make choices about type of carbs to take in with regard to activity timing.
You absolutely can change the F and C ratio to your liking but respect the F minimum and the total cal number, remember that Fats have about 9 cal per gram while Carbs have about 4.

Appreciate the input as always. I wanted to give higher protein and the updated macros a go, and at first, I was worried it might be a placebo effect, but after a couple of days, I really started to notice that I had more energy. I think the biggest proof so far is that I got about 6 hours of sleep last night, and usually, that would just kill me the next day, but today, I only felt slightly off my game. That's just one example, obviously. In general, I feel like I have better mental clarity and am physically more efficient at doing things, including working out.

Remember too that gymnast have a reason to hold them in, there is an aesthetic component to their competition. Climbers probably benefit from holding then in too in some situations.
The other thing is that comparing any muscle to itself if it gets bigger, more actual muscle tissue, it got stronger but it can also get stronger while actually getting smaller as measured with the tape measure. Kind of a tricky thing lolz

Haha, definitely tricky.