my 2 cents as a Khamzat fan (how he's promoted)

[koquerelle]

Rankings matter to journalists and hardcore fans.

 

[kflo]

If we're going by Fightmatrix rankings.... you might be right. That's gotta be one of the biggest gaps ever in a matchup.

What was the rankings gap between Brock and Mir in Brock's UFC debut? If there's one that trumps it... it's gotta be that. Hard to imagine anyone could justify a top 100 ranking for Brock after having just the one fight vs Min-Soo Kim.

There's also Gall vs CM Punk... Gall certainly wasn't ranked high, but CM Punk was likely ranked dead last of all WW's competing in MMA in the entire world.

How many fans watching know or care or will find out where he’s ranked on fightmatrix though?

And I’m sure brock wasn’t ranked very high on fight matrix against mir, herring, randy.....heath was prob higher than mir when they fought lesnar.

 

[Jose Beehive]

Yeah completely agree, good take imo.

 

[Dionysian]

Did you forget Brock - unranked, fought Mir in his 2nd MMA fight, first fight in the UFC. Mir was ranked #3. Lost the fight, won the title two fights (8 months) later.

Who cares about a loss though. Losing isn't setting a record. I'm talking with a win. Brock beating Mir the 2nd time, he was coming off wins over Heath and Randy. So Brock was likely 1 ranking spot away (as in one higher?) from Mir. Khamzat, if you go by fightmatrix, is more than 60 ranking spots away from Leon.

 

[kflo]

Who cares about a loss though. Losing isn't setting a record. I'm talking with a win. Brock beating Mir the 2nd time, he was coming off wins over Heath and Randy. So Brock was likely 1 ranking spot away (as in one higher?) from Mir. Khamzat, if you go by fightmatrix, is more than 60 ranking spots away from Leon.

Where do you think brock was ranked on fightmatrix at 1-1 with a win over moon and loss to mir when he beat heath?

 

[Dionysian]

How many fans watching know or care or will find out where he’s ranked on fightmatrix though?

And I’m sure brock wasn’t ranked very high on fight matrix against mir, herring, randy.....heath was prob higher than mir when they fought lesnar.

https://www.sherdog.com/news/rankings/2/Sherdog-Official-Mixed-Martial-Arts-Rankings-18004
Just looked it up... Brock was literally ranked 2 spots below Mir when he beat him. Obviously who cares about the first fight, since Brock lost it.

Where do you think brock was ranked on fightmatrix at 1-1 with a win over moon and loss to mir when he beat heath?

Good choice. Do you have any data? I bet it isn't 63 spots but that one will be a huge jump I'm guessing.

 

[cshireman4]

Leon lost his ranking due to inactivity. That was a major part of the justification for announcing this fight in the first place. Khamzat isn't #3 with a win here. Can't have it both ways. If Leon was #3, he wouldn't be fighting #15. If Leon isn't ranked, the #15 guy can't jump to #3 by beating him.

And for clarification, I like Khamzat. Hope he beats the brakes off of the decision machine Edwards. If Khamzat is that good, he can climb the ladder just like anyone else.

 

[kflo]

https://www.sherdog.com/news/rankings/2/Sherdog-Official-Mixed-Martial-Arts-Rankings-18004
Just looked it up... Brock was literally ranked 2 spots below Mir when he beat him. Obviously who cares about the first fight, since Brock lost it.

Good choice. Do you have any data? I bet it isn't 63 spots but that one will be a huge jump I'm guessing.

Hard to imagine having too many statistical points on fightmatrix after 1 win against a 2-5 fighter and a loss to mir who had lost 2 of 4 (over the last 4 years) with his losses finishes to lhw’s (even if he looked good in the loss).

 

[Dionysian]

If we're going by Fightmatrix rankings.... you might be right. That's gotta be one of the biggest gaps ever in a matchup.

What was the rankings gap between Brock and Mir in Brock's UFC debut? If there's one that trumps it... it's gotta be that. Hard to imagine anyone could justify a top 100 ranking for Brock after having just the one fight vs Min-Soo Kim.

There's also Gall vs CM Punk... Gall certainly wasn't ranked high, but CM Punk was likely ranked dead last of all WW's competing in MMA in the entire world.

I'd argue both are irrelevant since both were losses. You don't set any record by losing. Otherwise you could toss my mother in vs Nunes and say she gets the record. CM Punk getting crushed means nothing.

The record is the biggest WIN. Jumping the most spots to crush a guy who is ranked above you. If Brock beat Mir the first time that'd likely be the current record. When he beat Mir the 2nd time though they of course were neck-to-neck (see above).

Hard to imagine having too many statistical points on fightmatrix after 1 win against a 2-5 fighter and a loss to mir who had lost 2 of 4 (over the last 4 years) with his losses finishes to lhw’s (even if he looked good in the loss).

Yeah I agree. Whatever it is, I am thinking this (Brock vs Heath) is the current record. If we had solid data on this, we could know for sure if Khamzat vs Leon is bigger or not. Honestly, I think the UFC could promote it regardless. How many people bitch about Royce wins when they say "fastest turnaround win" right? Maybe a qualification would fix it, like they sometimes use with that stat? Like saying "in modern times" or something.

 

[usernamee]

If Khamzat gets murdered they probably want to be able to point to "hey look he was ranked no 15" so they don't seem like complete ass hats for making the fight in the first place

 

[Dionysian]

Leon lost his ranking due to inactivity. That was a major part of the justification for announcing this fight in the first place. Khamzat isn't #3 with a win here. Can't have it both ways. If Leon was #3, he wouldn't be fighting #15. If Leon isn't ranked, the #15 guy can't jump to #3 by beating him.

And for clarification, I like Khamzat. Hope he beats the brakes off of the decision machine Edwards. If Khamzat is that good, he can climb the ladder just like anyone else.

ufc.com/rankings
he's #3 right now

If Khamzat gets murdered they probably want to be able to point to "hey look he was ranked no 15" so they don't seem like complete ass hats for making the fight in the first place

Yup. THAT is the risk. If Khamzat loses you take more heat. That's the trick of this though... more risk, more reward. I say keep him ranked low as anything. Honestly the critique of an exciting contender going too high up to take an L isn't that bad... people will say "lol what were they thinking" as the worst reaction. But with a W? Setting the record for highest ranking jump? Think about the hype from that when he'd be going for the WW title shot...

 

[Th3Sav4ge]

So, like has been pointed out, Khamzat is now ranked #15. Here's what I was thinking though... as a Khamzat fan, I would actually prefer they didn't. Purely from a promotional angle I'm talking about keep in mind.

If I was running the UFC I would play it up for what it is... the single biggest rankings jump in the sport's history. This sets the record... right? Someone let me know if not. Fighting outside top 25 to then top 3 has never been done before... so use that shit for your promo. Use the excitement of "this is insane and unprecedented, we've never seen this, but the potential on this guy is off the charges... he already set the record for the quickest turnaround and quickest 3-fight streak AND least strikes absorbed... what about THIS mountain in front of him though?? Can he successfully complete the greatest rankings jump in the sport's history?"

But I'm not in charge, so oh well. But yeah that'd be way better than pumping him to 15 overnight in an effort to mute the conversation. IMO, they should be doing the opposite. What do you think?

not a bad thought but pat cummings fighting dc has to be up there for a modern mma rankings leap

 

[kflo]

I'd argue both are irrelevant since both were losses. You don't set any record by losing. Otherwise you could toss my mother in vs Nunes and say she gets the record. CM Punk getting crushed means nothing.

The record is the biggest WIN. Jumping the most spots to crush a guy who is ranked above you. If Brock beat Mir the first time that'd likely be the current record. When he beat Mir the 2nd time though they of course were neck-to-neck (see above).

Yeah I agree. Whatever it is, I am thinking this (Brock vs Heath) is the current record. If we had solid data on this, we could know for sure if Khamzat vs Leon is bigger or not. Honestly, I think the UFC could promote it regardless. How many people bitch about Royce wins when they say "fastest turnaround win" right? Maybe a qualification would fix it, like they sometimes use with that stat? Like saying "in modern times" or something.

The thing is you know the ufc won’t reference fightmatrix, and most fans have no idea what it is if they did. Khamzat is a prospect with a bullet and 3 quick smeshes, undefeated record, and that’s enough to market. He’s not a wild underdog here. He’s the betting favorite (as brock was too).

 

[Dionysian]

not a bad thought but pat cummings fighting dc has to be up there for a modern mma rankings leap

Pat lost. So same boat as CM Punk losing and Brock losing the first Mir fight. Not a record/not noteworthy. For the jump to mean anything you have to win. Otherwise the pro's vs joe's fights on youtube hold the record haha.

The thing is you know the ufc won’t reference fightmatrix, and most fans have no idea what it is if they did. Khamzat is a prospect with a bullet and 3 quick smeshes, undefeated record, and that’s enough to market. He’s not a wild underdog here. He’s the betting favorite (as brock was too).

I know. So don't mention fightmatrix at all. Just say "with a win, this will be the biggest jump in rankings any fighter has ever taken" as a blanket statement. Hardcores/casuals alike would be in agreement and you could still push that angle.

If he wins... hammer the shit out of it with all the other records (quickest turnaround + quickest 3 fight wins + least shots absorbed) when he fights Usman. It'll go through the damn roof

 

[Dionysian]

You can sell tickets for an event with hype. You can build a series of blockbusters with proven hype. But the UFC always gets a bit of pre-cum dribbling anytime a fighter makes a splash, and then they strike the iron while the fires are still being stoked. Then they end up with stained jeans, a lonely night, and a diary entry that goes:

Why can't we get more stars like Conor anymore? :'(​

lol'd at the whole metaphor here haha

 

[cshireman4]

ufc.com/rankings
he's #3 right now

Yup. THAT is the risk. If Khamzat loses you take more heat. That's the trick of this though... more risk, more reward. I say keep him ranked low as anything. Honestly the critique of an exciting contender going too high up to take an L isn't that bad... people will say "lol what were they thinking" as the worst reaction. But with a W? Setting the record for highest ranking jump? Think about the hype from that when he'd be going for the WW title shot...

Well, well, then...they've added him back now that the contract is signed lol. Rankings are a marketing scam, so I guess your biggest rankings jump narrative has just as much weight as any other rankings ploy. Pretty sure Chimaev's highlights of mauling people, finishing two fighters in 10 days, etc sells pretty well regardless.

 

[Cranberry2.0]

I have been watching mma since i was 13, and for me personally, the rankings mean nothing in this sport

 

[Dionysian]

I have been watching mma since i was 13, and for me personally, the rankings mean nothing in this sport

Ok, so you're a good test subject then. Picture this... Rogan. Uncomfortable close-up. Just black in the background. So normal UFC style.

Rogan: "With a win, this man will have accomplished something never done before. On paper, this is the single most extreme jump any fighter has taken to earn a win over a top ranked opponent. Not just ranked, but an elite talent ranked in the top 3. This is unheard of and, frankly, unprecedented. But that is what we are seeing unfold here... a man who breaks precedent. Precedent didn't matter when he set the record for quickest turnaround, then the quickest 3-fight win streak, then the record for the least strikes absorbed over those 3 fights. He is a testament that fighters are here to BREAK precedent, not bow to it. That is the level of historic expectation being carried into tonight's fight."

Fade into the inspirational music.
What do you think?

 

[laleggenda27]

Playing the "Khamzat is ranked #66" angle is a double-edged sword. First, it highlights the discrepancy in how fighters are treated. Giving the #66 WW a golden ticket toward a title shot seems pretty absurd/dirty when juxtaposed against the #3 WW being on an 8-fight win streak and still not being given his due. Second, it would undervalue a Leon victory by reaffirming the narrative that it's no big deal because Leon beat a low-level prospect who's completely untested.

 

[r-harper-1]

Yeah sort of my point. If he beats Leon he goes to #3, as he should. So it is totally irrelevant what he is ranked BEFORE fighting Leon... #15 or #100... he goes to #3 with a win. So why not play the discrepancy up to promote the fight? It is another record he would be setting if he pulls it off... at #15 it likely wouldn't be though. I'm sure someone has beaten a guy 12 spots ahead of them before in the UFC.

He gets a title shot with a decisive win ...that’s all that matters imo