"Muay Thai is less technical than BJJ"

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Hatake88

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Hey guys

Throughout the years, a number of BJJ black belts I know have said that Muay Thai is less technical than BJJ. Before someone states the obvious (that these black belts are most likely very biased), to what extent do you agree with this statement?

As a whole, I think serious Muay Thai practitioners are better conditioned than serious BJJ practitioners - for example, every MT fighter I personally know runs 7-10km every day leading up to their fight. MT is also the harder sport from a mental point of view - this is because in MT you have to accept that you will get hit and this will hurt...whereas in BJJ you can tap and there are mats to cushion the takedowns.

However, from a technical point of view - I don't know if my BJJ professors are wrong. There is a much heavier emphasis on repetition work in MT when compared to BJJ. And while strikes can be difficult to master - there isn't really that many strikes/variations when compared to grappling (especially in the gi). MT seems to be more about the "invisible" factors - like timing, reflexes etc. For better or worse, there also seems to be less innovation in MT than in BJJ - you often see new guards, new transitions etc. in modern BJJ while Golden Age fighters are still hailed as having superior technique than the Nak Muay today.

Without any intent of starting a total flame war, what does Sherdog think?
 
Who gives a shit, and what does it matter?
 
I completely think this is true of all striking arts vs BJJ. I have done both for over 25 years.

In striking, you spend your rest of your life making the same punch you learned the very first week better and better. It is a race with no finish line. Likewise, with the dozen or so other techniques in your tool box.

In BJJ, you can drill 4-5 techniques a day 365 days a year and never do the same technique twice. Of course, there are commonalities in techniques. But, BJJ techniques outnumber striking techniques 100:1. And, BJJ is always evolving and discovering new things. I don't think you can say that about striking.

My opinion is that striking arts are better for you physically. The training requires you to be in better shape. The better you get in BJJ, the easier it becomes. I can't remember my last easy karate class. Punching and kicking take cardio at all levels. And, the process of striking training doesn't tear you up like having someone stack you, bend your neck, or blow out your knee like BJJ. I feel amazing after a karate class. I feel destroyed after a BJJ session.
 
What do you mean by technique? If you really need to win an argument, you could say that each permutation of a striking action/limb/impacting surface/angle/distance/target/timing is a striking technique. So who wins then?

Even if you have every single permutation, it only matters if you can apply it on a resisting opponent. Danaher put it best, if you don't want to risk catastrophic results then learn grappling. Otherwise, enjoy cause it's fun like hell!
 
I'd say it's debatable. If we look at the clinch work aspect alone in Muay Thai there's more techniques there than most people will ever master in a career. There's an endless series of grip transitions and ways to setup clinch strikes along with sweeps and throws, there's lots of different positions to work from with counters, setups, and technique sets in each plus all the ways of flowing from one position to the next.
 
Does "technical" mean "having more techniques" or "harder to master"? The answer to your question depends on your definition of the terms you're using.

BJJ has a way higher number of techniques than muay thai, it's not even close. It doesn't mean becoming elite in muay thai is easier than in BJJ.

MMA has undeniably more techniques than boxing yet I've never seen anyone claim that MMA is more technical than boxing. Most people use the word "technical" in the second sense.
 
BJJ is technical in the same way chess is.
Muay Thai is technical in the way being an F1 race car driver is.

You need good technique for both but one requires immediate on the fly thinking and reaction, the other allows for some time to have a breather and think. It's easy to think you're doing a more technical martial art if you're in a martial art that allows you to sit in guard and start a sequence of techniques to tap your opponent. That luxury doesn't exist in Muay Thai, the techniques have to be in your DNA in order for you to pull them off.

Neither is better, just different.
 
How exactly are these two comparable?

One is stand up one is grappling
 
AndyMaBobs said:
BJJ is technical in the same way chess is.
Muay Thai is technical in the way being an F1 race car driver is.

You need good technique for both but one requires immediate on the fly thinking and reaction, the other allows for some time to have a breather and think. It's easy to think you're doing a more technical martial art if you're in a martial art that allows you to sit in guard and start a sequence of techniques to tap your opponent. That luxury doesn't exist in Muay Thai, the techniques have to be in your DNA in order for you to pull them off.

Neither is better, just different.
Click to expand...
this is a great comparison
 
Hatake88 said:
Hey guys

Throughout the years, a number of BJJ black belts I know have said that Muay Thai is less technical than BJJ. Before someone states the obvious (that these black belts are most likely very biased), to what extent do you agree with this statement?

As a whole, I think serious Muay Thai practitioners are better conditioned than serious BJJ practitioners - for example, every MT fighter I personally know runs 7-10km every day leading up to their fight. MT is also the harder sport from a mental point of view - this is because in MT you have to accept that you will get hit and this will hurt...whereas in BJJ you can tap and there are mats to cushion the takedowns.

However, from a technical point of view - I don't know if my BJJ professors are wrong. There is a much heavier emphasis on repetition work in MT when compared to BJJ. And while strikes can be difficult to master - there isn't really that many strikes/variations when compared to grappling (especially in the gi). MT seems to be more about the "invisible" factors - like timing, reflexes etc. For better or worse, there also seems to be less innovation in MT than in BJJ - you often see new guards, new transitions etc. in modern BJJ while Golden Age fighters are still hailed as having superior technique than the Nak Muay today.

Without any intent of starting a total flame war, what does Sherdog think?
Click to expand...
Not quite sure of your hypothesis of the bigger repertoire being held by bjj specialists, most competition grapplers have a fairly limited arsenal. An experienced grappler might know a lot of moves, but usually they are best at performing a select few. I do well against bjj people, relying heavily on a double leg and a high side figure four (hammerlock).
 
BJJ has more techniques. MT is less forgiving of small lapses in technique (especially of timing, which is one of the key technical aspects of MT and all striking).

The odd thing is how technical almost every sport is at the highest level. Sprinting for instance is something I'd always thought you could either do or you couldn't. Then I watched commentary by Donathon Bailey (Olympic 100 meter sprint gold medalist for Canada), where he explained all the little details Olympic level sprinters have to get right to have any chance at a medal. The interviewer asked if those techniques really mattered, and Bailey pointed out that by the time you get to the Olympics, everyone in the 100 m sprints is naturally extremely fast (top .0001%), and since races are typically decided by a tenth of a second or less, even slight imperfections in technique means you have no chance (especially since the race is too short to gain back any mistakes later on). Your techniques has to be almost perfect if you want any chance for a medal.
 
eternaldarkness said:
Not quite sure of your hypothesis of the bigger repertoire being held by bjj specialists, most competition grapplers have a fairly limited arsenal. An experienced grappler might know a lot of moves, but usually they are best at performing a select few. I do well against bjj people, relying heavily on a double leg and a high side figure four (hammerlock).
Click to expand...
It just shows you how complex BJJ is. There are so many techniques that if you try to master all of them, you'll end up not doing a single one right. It takes the average person 10-15 years to even learn all the techniques well enough to teach them to somebody else, let alone being able pull them off in a competitive setting. It doesn't take that long to understand muay thai conceptually. Lumpinee champions probably don't know more techniques than regular pros, they're just better at executing them.
 
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StopDucking said:
It just shows you how complex BJJ is. There are so many techniques that if you try to master all of them, you'll end up not doing a single one right. It takes the average person 10-15 years to even learn all the techniques well enough to teach them to somebody else, let alone being able pull them off in a competitive setting. It doesn't take that long to understand muay thai conceptually. Lumpinee champions probably doesn't know more techniques than regular pros, they're just better at executing them.
Click to expand...

But there's a huge technical component (including timing, which is a key element in many sports, everything from baseball to tennis to hockey etc) in being better at executing them.

Technical means either the number of techniques, or the degree to which a single technique has been mastered. Both are very hard to do, which is why it's so hard for even a very gifted athlete to just walk off the street and become either a BJJ or a MT champ. They're both very technical, but in opposite directions. BJJ's technicality covers a huge area, MT's technicality covers a narrow area but goes very deep.

Wrestling is closer to MT than BJJ btw. Daniel Igali (Olympic freestyle gold medalist) talks about how his coach would have him practice the same double leg hours every day (when he was already an International level wrestler), adjusting foot placement and posture by a centimeter here and there, tiny refinements that you'd think shouldn't make a difference -- except it did. Doing his shot 99% right would have meant no Olympic medal, or even Olympic qualification.
 
I once heard the analogy that striking is similar to a gun fight while grappling is closer to a sword fight in terms of technicality
 
As with a lot of things the more you learn the more you learn there is to learn.
 
Hatake88 said:
Hey guys

Throughout the years, a number of BJJ black belts I know have said that Muay Thai is less technical than BJJ. Before someone states the obvious (that these black belts are most likely very biased), to what extent do you agree with this statement?

As a whole, I think serious Muay Thai practitioners are better conditioned than serious BJJ practitioners - for example, every MT fighter I personally know runs 7-10km every day leading up to their fight. MT is also the harder sport from a mental point of view - this is because in MT you have to accept that you will get hit and this will hurt...whereas in BJJ you can tap and there are mats to cushion the takedowns.

However, from a technical point of view - I don't know if my BJJ professors are wrong. There is a much heavier emphasis on repetition work in MT when compared to BJJ. And while strikes can be difficult to master - there isn't really that many strikes/variations when compared to grappling (especially in the gi). MT seems to be more about the "invisible" factors - like timing, reflexes etc. For better or worse, there also seems to be less innovation in MT than in BJJ - you often see new guards, new transitions etc. in modern BJJ while Golden Age fighters are still hailed as having superior technique than the Nak Muay today.

Without any intent of starting a total flame war, what does Sherdog think?
Click to expand...

This is a common thought for the casual practioner, which is the majority of people. Additionally BJJ is way more popular than MT, Most MMA gyms now a days are very heavy on the BJJ emphasis, and I would say the majority of casual BJJ guys, either do BJJ only, or cross train stand up very little. Their knowledge and exposure to the sport is not much. In addition, they are generally practicing "stand up" not MT, although generally speaking, stand up is labeled as MT by most places now a day, but there definitly is a difference between MMA striking, and MT.

anyways aside from all that, I have rolled a handful of times, Im not into it, but I have done it, anyways when I first started doing it, what I related it to.........was cilnching on the ground.
 
Is football (soccer) or BJJ more technical?
 
Weird question, and some weird answers aswell.

The logic of some seems to be that a discipline that uses a larger number off different techniques is more technical.

Muay thai fighters spend years perfecting their technique. Are you going to tell me this is not technical because it's just the same technique over and over?


I think the question needs to be more specific. It's possible that it's easier to overcome a more technical opponent in muay thai compared to in BJJ. Someone with a strong chin and hard punches may be able to beat a more technical fighter for instance.e
 
It is not hard to understand.

Striking - you spend a lot of time perfecting a relatively low number of techniques
BJJ - you spend relatively little time on a large number techniques

In BJJ, I could train a year and never drill the same move twice.
In karate, every single time I train, I drill our 3 basic kicks and 2 basic punches hundreds of times each.
 
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