Muay Thai Clinch

[James Fuller]

I think the FAQ overstates it a bit and we need to remember while 99% right that was not written by Allah/God/The Fonz so just saying...thats what the FAQ says should not be thread enders in and of themselves.

I agree wholeheartedly with the spirit of understanding that general strength and total body movements are really the starting and ending points when it comes to "combat" strength (whatever the fuck that means!) However, inside this framework there is still wiggleroom. For example, on the suggestions of many of you whom I consider very strong lifters, I just recently started doing weighted chins. Trying to do them as explosively as possible (ballistic maybe? I am not sure) to try and best replicate the "whipping" motion associated with an effective thai clinch and I can honestly say they have helped my clinch power quite a bit on the testimony of my training partners.

The information on lifting, body mechanics, nutrition etc has all been so good around here for awhile but I am convinced a deeper understanding of the nature of fighting and the techniques needed within would really help alot of the "pure" lifters on here tailor SOME (not all or even most) of their advice a bit.

 

[TeddyRoosevelt]

I think the FAQ overstates it a bit and we need to remember while 99% right that was not written by Allah/God/The Fonz so just saying...thats what the FAQ says should not be thread enders in and of themselves.

I agree wholeheartedly with the spirit of understanding that general strength and total body movements are really the starting and ending points when it comes to "combat" strength (whatever the fuck that means!) However, inside this framework there is still wiggleroom. For example, on the suggestions of many of you whom I consider very strong lifters, I just recently started doing weighted chins. Trying to do them as explosively as possible (ballistic maybe? I am not sure) to try and best replicate the "whipping" motion associated with an effective thai clinch and I can honestly say they have helped my clinch power quite a bit on the testimony of my training partners.

The information on lifting, body mechanics, nutrition etc has all been so good around here for awhile but I am convinced a deeper understanding of the nature of fighting and the techniques needed within would really help alot of the "pure" lifters on here tailor SOME (not all or even most) of their advice a bit.

Well said. Unlike some on here (and I might get flamed for this), I DO believe in sport specific training. Powerlifting is powerlifting...not always and forever the primary method of weight training for combat sports athletes. I think there are quite a few holdovers from PL training to combat sports strength training...but they are not one and the same. As has been said many times, strength is strength. But I absolutely believe in sport-specific strengths, at least in more advances lifters/athletes.

Problem is, most people misinterpret the meaning of - and the methods of producing - sport-specific or "functional" strength. And most people new to weight training would derive far more benefit from a traditional, heavy PL type regime than some dumbass program they created based around plyo-pushups, weak DB snatches, and some other stuff they found on youtube.

But for those of us who have been strength training for a while...I think you need to differentiate your training based upon your goals.

 

[James Fuller]

Well said. Unlike some on here (and I might get flamed for this), I DO believe in sport specific training. Powerlifting is powerlifting...not always and forever the primary method of weight training for combat sports athletes. I think there are quite a few holdovers from PL training to combat sports strength training...but they are not one and the same. As has been said many times, strength is strength. But I absolutely believe in sport-specific strengths, at least in more advances lifters/athletes.

Problem is, most people misinterpret the meaning of - and the methods of producing - sport-specific or "functional" strength. And most people new to weight training would derive far more benefit from a traditional, heavy PL type regime than some dumbass program they created based around plyo-pushups, weak DB snatches, and some other stuff they found on youtube.

But for those of us who have been strength training for a while...I think you need to differentiate your training based upon your goals.

Exactly. I see MMA strength and Conditioning the same way I see training for the sport itself. There are many different "bases" everyone brings to it. Some guys are wrestlers so they start out working alot on their striking, some were golden gloves guys so they work their grappling etc. Well in S&C its the same thing. We all bring bases to our pursuit of functional strength. I did a bb routine in college becuase I was a vain peacock but when I started PL for mma it helped as I was used to slogging away through 2 hr isolation lifting sessions and the shorter yet much more intense 5X5 program got me going again. Also my muscle endurance was good from such high volume but couldn't do a single much above what I could rep 8 times! So it brought good and mostly bad to my base and influenced the way I have trained ever since (low volume/ high weight). Whereas other guys that come in from a PL background to mma might have to change their routines a bit to accommodate their new found need for static strength and muscular endurance.

Yes there are "base" lifts that can NEVER be ignored no matter what your goals are but there are specific times and specific reasons for each athlete to perhaps take some time for a secondary lift or variation that seems ineffective from a pure PL standpoint.

 

[DrBdan]

Weighted chins are a pretty basic exercise, I would hardly call them sport-specific. A lot of beginner and intermediate strength routines include them. If they helped your clinch then I would suggest that they simply helped you get stronger which translated to a better clinch game.

 

[KnightTemplar]

I think the FAQ overstates it a bit and we need to remember while 99% right that was not written by Allah/God/The Fonz so just saying...thats what the FAQ says should not be thread enders in and of themselves.

I agree wholeheartedly with the spirit of understanding that general strength and total body movements are really the starting and ending points when it comes to "combat" strength (whatever the fuck that means!) However, inside this framework there is still wiggleroom. For example, on the suggestions of many of you whom I consider very strong lifters, I just recently started doing weighted chins. Trying to do them as explosively as possible (ballistic maybe? I am not sure) to try and best replicate the "whipping" motion associated with an effective thai clinch and I can honestly say they have helped my clinch power quite a bit on the testimony of my training partners.

The information on lifting, body mechanics, nutrition etc has all been so good around here for awhile but I am convinced a deeper understanding of the nature of fighting and the techniques needed within would really help alot of the "pure" lifters on here tailor SOME (not all or even most) of their advice a bit.

Love the Family Guy reference!:icon_chee

 

[James Fuller]

Weighted chins are a pretty basic exercise, I would hardly call them sport-specific. A lot of beginner and intermediate strength routines include them. If they helped your clinch then I would suggest that they simply helped you get stronger which translated to a better clinch game.

they also mimic the movement/ arm angle of the technique which I believe is an added element to their effectiveness for training it, not saying that they arnt applicable to other sport specific movements and therefore generalizable such as for the bjj guy keeping someones posture broke down in their guard. Thats my point...its not always JUST about getting stronger in the blanket sense. sometimes training to get stronger in a very specific movement or area of a larger movement has more effectiveness for combat athletes versus PL'ers or anyone just looking to increase their pure "strength" as measured by the accepted benchmarks of bench/deadlift/squat

Also I am not saying if a particular lift or exercise looks like a particular movement then it automatically would help you perform it better or if it dosent look like the movement your training for then its worthless. I believe in the effectiveness of training the standing overhead press even though I will never lift someone over my head prowrestling style in a fight (although that would be sweet) I am just saying it can be a good guide.

 

[gotobread]

The Thais are the best clinchers in the world, and I figured I'd add something to the conversation other than "deadlifts and squats", which seems to be the first reply to every question posed on this forum. I don't even know how you could say their training isn't optimal as that's purely hypothetical. Unless you were able to create some alternate parallel dimension where you can talk a guy like Buakaw (not the best clincher in the game, but he was mentioned in this thread -- he's notoriously obsessed with his body, by the way, which explains the endless curls) into doing deadlifts, you can't know that.

ANYWHO, pull-ups and lifting paint cans filled with concrete with your mouth. Don't forget your DEFENSIVE strength.

 

[scoopj]

I figured I'd add something to the conversation other than "deadlifts and squats", which seems to be the first reply to every question posed on this forum.

Right, because the 25 replies before yours were all about deadlifts and squats. Here's to YOU Mr. Threadsaver.:icon_neut

 

[PWR1982]

If your goal is being strong in the clinch, do squats dl and blabla, and add a lot of chins. Thai clinch is a lot about this sort of power - I remember that in the thaiboxing gym I used to go to, the instructor would often say that "unless you're an armwrestling word champion, you should try to work for a double over, if you are an arm-wrestling world champion, you can do whatever you want against most guys, laughing at them while controlling them easily with just one arm, just toying with them"

Seriously, you can talk about it all day how thai clinch is all technique... but look at the greco guys, for them, being strong as fuck in stuff like chins is a huge factor. So yeah, do squats,dl etc... but do a lot of chins too and be strong.

So yeah, do a program to improve you clinch if you must, but do it by doing squats deadlifts etc, + chins. It's the same as a wrestler doing lunges, some sort of sport specific training is ok, just don't make your whole training based on chinups and nothing else.

Pretty fucked up right now, hope it's not too hard to read the stuff.