Muay thai clinch questions

Discussion in 'Standup Technique' started by Thaijitsu612, Jan 1, 2013.

  1. Thaijitsu612

    Thaijitsu612 Brown Belt

    Joined:
    May 18, 2012
    Messages:
    2,955
    Likes Received:
    2,667
    So I've been looking to improve my thai clinch and have a few questions. Ive read the thai clinch 101 questions but found no answers to my questions.

    1.when you have the double collar and people just flurry punches to the body what is the best counter? I feel like their punches are really ineffective and leave them wide open but what are some effective counters besides just kneeing up the middle? I ask cause in sparring I knee very softlty and carefully and my sparring partners just ignore it and keep punching.

    2.the move where you swing someone around and knee them never works out right for me. Most of the time the person ends up just falling on the ground, am I just doing it too hard?

    3. When people just cover theyre bodies(not allowed to knee the head) what should I do to get knees through?

    Thanks in advance and I appreciate any video recommendations, I've see malepeits(sp?) And really like them.
     
  2. SummerStriker

    SummerStriker Black Belt

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2012
    Messages:
    7,414
    Likes Received:
    1,699
    1a. Sit-ups

    1b. Twist their neck with your grip by grinding your forearms, one up and one down. Stay sensitive to them and when they dig for a punch, disrupt them with the turn. If you go against them, you take power off their punch. If you go with them, you speed them up but may pull them off balance.

    1c. I don't believe in holding onto a clinch for that long. Once you are in the dominant position, it is ok to let it go if you can use the release to land a hard blow. If they are uppercutting, elbow them as their hand drops. Use the grip on the opposite side to push them into it harder.

    2a. If you are throwing them on the ground, for self defense, good. Shin kick them across the face.

    2b. This doesn't happen a lot with experienced people your own size. There may be an element of compliance with it unless you are really driving for it. Give your partners time to get better and suggest they try to stay up more.

    3a. I like to send the straight knee directly into the bicep on the outside. Try to bust them in the same side two or three times. It hurts enough that they may move their arm out of the way to protect it, preferring the body shot.
     
  3. Muay o Muay

    Muay o Muay Purple Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2012
    Messages:
    2,209
    Likes Received:
    55
    Location:
    UK
    Quick answer as on mobile ...Dont worries you scoring fine in each scenario you posted
     
  4. Thaijitsu612

    Thaijitsu612 Brown Belt

    Joined:
    May 18, 2012
    Messages:
    2,955
    Likes Received:
    2,667
    Thanks for responses. As for sit ups I didn't ask because the punches hurt lol, and I may have phrased the question poorly. Like I said I just tap people with me thigh since im not trying to hurt anyone, and since it doesnt hurt bad sparring partners just ignore it. Im confident in an actual fight anyone who tried that would crumble from the knees. I guess I was just asking for a new thing to drill when they do that, maybe do my kinda on purpose accidental throw? Lol

    I like the other points though.

    And muay o muay, yeah I guess thats a good way to look at it lol. Im usually successful from the clinch just looking to expand my game.
     
  5. Muay o Muay

    Muay o Muay Purple Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2012
    Messages:
    2,209
    Likes Received:
    55
    Location:
    UK
    In short you need to clinch with people with a better game..then none of the above scenarios will generally be occurring anyway and you will learn the proper game.
     
  6. NAKMUAY18

    NAKMUAY18 Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2011
    Messages:
    2,635
    Likes Received:
    550
    1. Knee them harder! Your not doing them any favours by going softly, they're gonna think that they can ignore knees to the body in competition. As soon as they fight and try to punch the body and ignore knees they are gonna get raped.

    2. Throwing people scores way higher than knees. If they keep falling, keep doing it. If they don't fall, follow with a knee. Throwing is demoralising and it takes gas out of the tank hitting the deck then getting up, do it when ever you can.

    3. I had this problem too! If you have double coller tie and they use their arms to protect the body, pull them off balance and kick the legs. As they are pulled down its impossible for them to check kicks so you can put everything in to them with no fear of hurting your shins on a check.
    You could also take advantage of the hands being by the waist and give up the grip to get free shots to the head. Pull them off balance and hook like your life depended on it.

    I'm not sure the legality of it but in my last ammy the guy blocked the knees with both hands soI kept my left hand behind the head (single coller tie) pulling him down and uppercutd with the right hockey style. The Ref let it go but does anybody know if it's legit?
     
  7. NAKMUAY18

    NAKMUAY18 Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2011
    Messages:
    2,635
    Likes Received:
    550
    I have to disagree with these points.
    1c. If your dominating the clinch stay in there as long as possible, and when you separate go straight back to it. If you have an aspect of your game when your superior to your oppo, why not exploit it. I agree with you about landing a big shot as you separate, but there's not point taking the fight to somewhere you risk being at a disadvantage.
    3a I understand what you mean, and that is an option, but your in serious danger of getting your knee spiked with and elbow. I personally wouldn't go straight to that option.
    Good stuff with your other points though.
     
  8. Muay o Muay

    Muay o Muay Purple Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2012
    Messages:
    2,209
    Likes Received:
    55
    Location:
    UK
    I think summer strikers ' 1 c' point is more aplicable to original scenario 3

    In both 1 & 3 id be quite happy to stay in there and knee away
     
  9. SummerStriker

    SummerStriker Black Belt

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2012
    Messages:
    7,414
    Likes Received:
    1,699
    I don't think you are wrong.

    1c is correct. I'm paranoid about being taken down so I take my advantage and run with it back out to striking. That isn't true for everyone so good correction.

    3a I haven't had that happen too much, but logically I see how it could. Something to watch out for. Thanks.
     
  10. SummerStriker

    SummerStriker Black Belt

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2012
    Messages:
    7,414
    Likes Received:
    1,699
    I could have explained the bigger picture a little more. His thing is only an issue because he's more effective than his partner by a good amount. So, its all info.
     
  11. NAKMUAY18

    NAKMUAY18 Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2011
    Messages:
    2,635
    Likes Received:
    550
    Good point actually. What Sport do you do TS? I was coming from a MT perspective.
     
  12. Muay o Muay

    Muay o Muay Purple Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2012
    Messages:
    2,209
    Likes Received:
    55
    Location:
    UK
    Fine really obv in ftr it would be preferable to pull onto a knee or release one arm to elbow the head.
     
  13. Thaijitsu612

    Thaijitsu612 Brown Belt

    Joined:
    May 18, 2012
    Messages:
    2,955
    Likes Received:
    2,667
    Well i'll be competing in both muay thai and mma
     
  14. SAAMAG

    SAAMAG San Antonio Applied Martial Arts Group

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2005
    Messages:
    3,716
    Likes Received:
    17
    Loaded question. You can knee them when they open up to punch, you can turn them and jerk them in the same direction they're putting their energy to off balance them, you can elbow them, you can transition into something other than the double collar tie (because there is more to clinching than that).

    If they're falling on the ground that's good. You can still knee them before or as they're falling.

    Elbow them. Then knee them. Push them or pull them to get them off balance and use the knee-jerk reaction of spreading the arms for equilibrium. No one ever is able to cover the whole time if you're giving them several inputs...they're going to do something. That, and if they do just cover like that, they're most likely done. Destroy their arms with your knees. Then they wont be able to punch or block anymore either.
     
  15. Wayneyboy

    Wayneyboy White Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2012
    Messages:
    15
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Didn't really feel like reading all the other posts, but the ones that were correct IMO were if they're falling, keep doing it cause they will gas out from going down and back up so much. Also that sway technique I've heard is referred to as "Truck Driver" when you sway them into your knee or elbow. When I learned this technique, I kind of got used to shifting my body weight to keep my balance and throw them off balance, and of course adjusting my forearms as well...I think it's a feeling out process. And if they're throwing body punches at you while you have the clinch, they'll rethink that after taking a few swift elbows to the head.
     
  16. endus

    endus White Belt

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2012
    Messages:
    96
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Near Boston
    I have the same issue with body punches in the clinch. In clinch drills people think it's fun to throw me around, I guess because I'm tall, but despite all my other deficiencies in fighting one thing I have been able to do is come out on top when we clinch in actual sparring. I think it makes people mad that I am able to win the clinch when I take so much abuse in drills. They start in with the rapid body punches and they seem to think that's winning them something, but I could stand there all day and take them.

    I accidentally kneed someone in the eye when I first started sparring and have been really hesitant to knee hard in the clinch even though it's to the body. When I think about how hard I kick/punch to the body in sparring, though, I am pretty sure I can step it up a bit and still not hurt them. I think that will help with the punches.

    Probably manipulating them as they punch/dragging them around is a good call too.

    I have trouble swinging people in to the knee to the body as well. I had it when i first started but I lost the feel for it. I think my problem is not stepping in to them enough...I step too far out, rather than towards them.
     
  17. gotobread

    gotobread Purple Belt

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2006
    Messages:
    1,770
    Likes Received:
    71
    Location:
    Philadelphia, PA
    You may not be able to knee the head, but you can still punch it, right? Don't overthink it.
     
  18. DaGenius

    DaGenius Silver Belt

    Joined:
    May 25, 2008
    Messages:
    10,643
    Likes Received:
    1,730
    Some good points guys. Work your clinch in 2013

    The quick point I will make is about the body punching scenario. Don't get into the mentality of "ill just take those body shots". When you are dominant in the clinch and the guys "defense" is body hooks..you have a great advantage. I realize you are training so you cant go hard but mentally think of yourself breaking his posture and throwing full force knees down the pipe. 2 good knees will beat his punches no problem. Point being do that..dont just chill in the clinch and take a rest. When you know you have the advantage, put the hammer down.
     
  19. Thaijitsu612

    Thaijitsu612 Brown Belt

    Joined:
    May 18, 2012
    Messages:
    2,955
    Likes Received:
    2,667
    Ok, that makes sense. But it brings to mind another question. If in mma how do I avoid people grabbing my knees for takedowns? Should I only pull them side to side not straight down? It hasnt really been an issue but I think thats do to quality of sparing partners again, we have some good kickboxers and good bjj guys but their takedowns are poor. I do kinda like have a single collar with my other hand under their arm since they can't shoot. I saw that in lesnar vs reem.
     
  20. PeterPain

    PeterPain Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2010
    Messages:
    4,347
    Likes Received:
    3
    Location:
    Location Location
    1, So they just let you head controle for body punches. Major boxing mistake.
    You keep your left arm tight around them, widen your stance, toss elbow from the right. Do it like you would toss a righthook or cross. WARNING only do if elbow are allowed (other guy has a helmet).

    2, What you are doing is nice but may resemble judo's Ogoshi. Don't go under their hip. What you wanna do is simply toss them aside for a kick/knee. Going under someones center of gravity lunch them into a trow instead of a toss..

    3, You are starting to sound like a pushover when you clinch. So am I.
    Try to bend them and knee the side.
    Knee harder, go southpaw and knee for the left.
    Hold them tight, press down on them, circle around and knee sides.

    As Saamag said,

    There is more to clinching than double collar.
    It's a big nooby mistake to just fight for double collar controle. Because it is taking what you have been drilling and applying it to a situation regardless of the context. Some people also do nothing when they finaly have their precious double collar... this one I just can't explain.

    There is also nothing wrong with tossing someone on the ground.
    If you ask me, it's even better because they 100% can't counter you as opposed to tossing on the side. As said before, try to catch them mid air/off balance. Also, ''Tossing to the side'' doesn't work on some people. I' m a huge guy with very good balance from years of judo. I'll hit the floor because someone cleanly trow me before loosing my balance to the side.

    Destroying the arms is nice.
    When kicking you don't always have to head hunt. Nice clean kick under a shoulder will destroy a whole arm. My favorite would be to do that enough to get someone worried so much/busy so much that they don't protect the face anymore to transition into spinning back fist/spinning back punch.
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2013

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.