MT teep vs MMA teep

[AndyMaBobs]

You can throw in a simple jab - you have the odd guy putting it to work but it's the exception rather than the norm.

And proper footwork/balance, feints.

Most mma guys are jacks of all trades and from what I've seen don't put time in to learning fundamentals. Everyone seems to want to do neo-footwork (think cruz or dillashaw) or unconventional strikes (think tony ferguson). Seems everyone wants to do flashy stuff on pads rather than hone the fundamentals.

then Petr Yan or Alexander Volkanovski comes along with rock solid boxing fundamentals and their opponents go: 'wut'

 

[Dexter]

I think the issues in MMA in regards to striking is:

1) its still a young sport compared to others
Meaning the quality is low compared to other disciplines. You see it at events when in order to prep for bigger MMA fights, they'll take part in MT, KB, or Boxing fights; Despite their exp. they're almost always a class lower in skill. Eg. Having 10 fights, but equal to someone with 5-7 in the individual areas.

2) lack of ammy exp
its common to see ppl have around 14-20 fights minimum before going pro in the amateurs in the west (MT/KB). MMA? You see ppl going pro after maybe 5-6 fights, and that's pushing it. 3-4 is more common. Back in the day it used to be even more ridiculous, people going pro just to get some paper after 6 months. Present day, there are more coming on board with the whole building an ammy route then transition up to pro.

There's also some snobbery behind some fighters I see with "He's just an ammy", "I'm a pro" despite the fact some ammys have much more ring exp than they do. In other parts of the world its not uncommon to see amateurs rack 50-100 fights under their belt.

So, no formalised training sequence in MMA, like in boxing/KB/MT? It’s interesting, always thought that in US there is one. Russian mma training is also very wild, except for combat sambo, where strict regime exists.

 

[DoctorTaco]

So, no formalised training sequence in MMA, like in boxing/KB/MT? It’s interesting, always thought that in US there is one. Russian mma training is also very wild, except for combat sambo, where strict regime exists.

the closest thing you’ll see is the common structure of an mma class. You start with drilling a striking combination. Add a take down. Then finish the sequence with some positional transition and a submission. Pretty standard Curriculum at most gyms

 

[j123]

So, no formalised training sequence in MMA, like in boxing/KB/MT? It’s interesting, always thought that in US there is one. Russian mma training is also very wild, except for combat sambo, where strict regime exists.

Depends on the day and the bulk of the class:

• if its full of hobbyists it'll be typical "keep hobbyists around" routine, lots of exciting methods, and S&C
• if there are more fighters around, would be more drilling
• If there are specific fighters with fights around, it will be about the methods most will use
• If the fighting favorite is in, it will be focused on that. eg. coach's pet is a southpaw, there will be drills for southies on dealing with orthos

Typically it was usually:
if striking focused: drills with striking, add takedown or TDD, mimic on pads, spar if it was fighter day

if grappling focused: drills on the ground/fence or from TD, add GnP, spar if it was fighter day

 

[rmongler]

Snap kick is more non-committal, when teeping you put in more 'follow through'.

The better you are in the clinch, the better you are at offensive grappling, the more you can use a squarer stance for striking in neutral.

 

[TheBystander5]

Which has better technique? I would say MT.

For one i think Westerners have stiff hips due to sitting on toilet bowl and sitting all day in cubicle. Thai fighters, Asians in general seem more flexible in lower areas. More flexible lower area mean more control over strike with use of lower body and that includes Teep.

Also, square or bladed stance i dont think matter, just have to adjust technique. Samart Payakaroon stands rather bladed for MT but his teep game was bar none.

 

[j123]

Which has better technique? I would say MT.

For one i think Westerners have stiff hips due to sitting on toilet bowl and sitting all day in cubicle. Thai fighters, Asians in general seem more flexible in lower areas. More flexible lower area mean more control over strike with use of lower body and that includes Teep.

Also, square or bladed stance i dont think matter, just have to adjust technique. Samart Payakaroon stands rather bladed for MT but his teep game was bar none.

I propose that we should all go to work like this and forgo the use of chairs to help flexibility

 

[Twelvepack]

Which has better technique? I would say MT.

For one i think Westerners have stiff hips due to sitting on toilet bowl and sitting all day in cubicle. Thai fighters, Asians in general seem more flexible in lower areas. More flexible lower area mean more control over strike with use of lower body and that includes Teep.

Also, square or bladed stance i dont think matter, just have to adjust technique. Samart Payakaroon stands rather bladed for MT but his teep game was bar none.

It's rare but some MT fighters even use an angled side kick/teep to keep distance. I would assume this is for the fighters who use a more bladed stance since it would be harder to teep straight on

 

[funktastic]

yeah the teep is a fighting fundamental. it can cause the fight to slow to your pace. i dont see the different between muay thai and mma teeps. they re both used to do the same thing

 

[AndyMaBobs]

Snap kick is more non-committal, when teeping you put in more 'follow through'.

The better you are in the clinch, the better you are at offensive grappling, the more you can use a squarer stance for striking in neutral.

The MMA fighter I'm currently coaching I have basically got 'teeping' but using the side kick as a substitute with his stance. Using it for mostly the same purpose defensively, and the advantage there is that the angle of a side kick is just ever so slightly harder to grab than a teep or a front kick. Just more awkard enough.

My Muay Thai fighter completely dominated his debut with nothing but hip scoots to dodge low kicks and teeps, but the principle for both fighters is the same.

I think normally the principles are more important than the specific moves used, with some exceptions of course

 

[rmongler]

The MMA fighter I'm currently coaching I have basically got 'teeping' but using the side kick as a substitute with his stance. Using it for mostly the same purpose defensively, and the advantage there is that the angle of a side kick is just ever so slightly harder to grab than a teep or a front kick. Just more awkard enough.

My Muay Thai fighter completely dominated his debut with nothing but hip scoots to dodge low kicks and teeps, but the principle for both fighters is the same.

I think normally the principles are more important than the specific moves used, with some exceptions of course

I agree; i am a big fan of Payakaroon's 'side teep' actually, which i feel can come more naturally to a lot of guys. As well, turning the hips does bring one closer to the body position for a limp leg single leg defense.

 

[shincheckin]

Maybe it's just me but my perception was that the further up you go in Muay Thai the more important they become, especially against a Muay Khao.

It would be true to say that round house kick's are thrown more often but then they rarely score as often they are blocked.

Some examples;

Skarbowsky had a great teep.

 

[Paradigm]

I propose that we should all go to work like this and forgo the use of chairs to help flexibility

That's the Asian squat...commonly seen in front of pool halls and cigarette smoke.

It's rare but some MT fighters even use an angled side kick/teep to keep distance. I would assume this is for the fighters who use a more bladed stance since it would be harder to teep straight on

Well...he DID mention Samart in his post.

 

[Twelvepack]

That's the Asian squat...commonly seen in front of pool halls and cigarette smoke.





Well...he DID mention Samart in his post.

Well he DID NOT mention the angled teep

 

[Paradigm]

Well he DID NOT mention the angled teep

I just figured it was common knowledge at this point on this subforum. Topics get rehashed every so often.

 

[Twelvepack]

I just figured it was common knowledge at this point on this subforum. Topics get rehashed every so often.

Not everyone lives on sherdog you nerd. Some people haven't heard of it

 

[Iroh]

MT stance is asking to be sent for a ride to takedown city, the MT clinch one as well

That being said it's a different sport coupled with MT being not so developed in the states. Different priorities, it's why something like a "calf kick" can seem so revolutionary, when it's just a subpar low kick. Would never gain the success it did I. MMA of it were in MT or KB

Calf kick is also a better weapon for MMA than for MT or KB, because it's a safer low kick, for MMA. It generally has better range and can be done quickly as it doesn't have to travel far. In MMA you always have to be much more on your guard about being taken down, than in MT. In MT you just have to worry about limited sweeps & throws. It's easier to do without standing too stationary, so you're more mobile, and you're also quicker to react due to the short execution time. Which all contribute to a better TDD, and also contributes to better striking defense, for basically the same reasons.

 

[Paradigm]

Not everyone lives on sherdog you nerd. Some people haven't heard of it

Read more and post less then...

 

[KBE6EKCTAH_CCP]

To give you a more serious answer, the teep hasn't really caught on in MMA yet for the most part.

It's a deceptively hard strike to do and requires a lot of balance because you're having to push your opponent backwards while keeping yourself standing and strong. I've heard people claim that it doesn't work because you're giving the leg to a wrestler, but seeing as its so rare you even see a teep in MMA its hard to say whether that's actually true. There's a lot of shit we didn't think would work in MMA until Cro Cop came along.

What you're seeing in MMA are usually sloppy mae-geri front kicks from karate.



Because the foot bounces off the target pretty much it becomes a good non-committal weapon if you're good at it. Conor McGregor's win over Chad Mendes is largely because of his commitment to body kicks, while he was being out wrestled everytime he snapped a body kick at Mendes he wore at his gas tank.

Even then you still see a more "mae gaeri" ish teep in stadium MT from time to time but it's usually from old school golden era fighters. I don't have concrete examples unfortunately but even in MT teeps are very, very diverse. Front teep, back teep, teep facing the front, teep facing the side, push teep, impact teep, stopping teep, chest teep, hip teep, gut teep. I mean seriously it looks like a very standardised kick but I would venture as far as saying that it is the most varied kick in martial arts.

In any case I certainly agree with you that the prevalent "pushing teep" from muay thai is not very prevalent in MMA. What we usually see is the safer snapping mae geri as you currently point out. It is a seriously underutilised tool but it is a risky thing in MMA because the threat of the takedown is there. Sure you can get tossed in MT, too, but the consequences are much lower. Get taken down by a good wrestler with serious GNP and you are in shit.

EDIT: just wanted to add that nobody in MMA is as adept as stadium thai fighters at retaining balance on a caught kick. This is a skill that is obtained through years and years of training and it explains how come kicking is SOOOOO prevalent in stadium MT, even though catching the leg and sweeping the shit out of the kicking apanyent is not only allowed but heavily scored: thais have unreal balance and hip flexibility, so that most often they don't even bother to sweep after catching the kick. Of course with wrestling takedowns it changes everything, as I was mentioning.

 

[AndyMaBobs]

Even then you still see a more "mae gaeri" ish teep in stadium MT from time to time but it's usually from old school golden era fighters. I don't have concrete examples unfortunately but even in MT teeps are very, very diverse. Front teep, back teep, teep facing the front, teep facing the side, push teep, impact teep, stopping teep, chest teep, hip teep, gut teep. I mean seriously it looks like a very standardised kick but I would venture as far as saying that it is the most varied kick in martial arts.

In any case I certainly agree with you that the prevalent "pushing teep" from muay thai is not very prevalent in MMA. What we usually see is the safer snapping mae geri as you currently point out. It is a seriously underutilised tool but it is a risky thing in MMA because the threat of the takedown is there. Sure you can get tossed in MT, too, but the consequences are much lower. Get taken down by a good wrestler with serious GNP and you are in shit.

EDIT: just wanted to add that nobody in MMA is as adept as stadium thai fighters at retaining balance on a caught kick. This is a skill that is obtained through years and years of training and it explains how come kicking is SOOOOO prevalent in stadium MT, even though catching the leg and sweeping the shit out of the kicking apanyent is not only allowed but heavily scored: thais have unreal balance and hip flexibility, so that most often they don't even bother to sweep after catching the kick. Of course with wrestling takedowns it changes everything, as I was mentioning.

All those teep variants are also very fighter dependent too. Some people like to teep flat on the foot, I've always liked to teep with the ball of my foot so that it drives in more. Just differences in preference and style too

Best balance I've seen on one leg I've seen in MMA was Cain Velasquez vs Brock Lesnar, I can't remember if it was a caught kick or an attempt at a single, but Cain hops on one leg the entire length of the cage and doesn't go down.

There's also the added fact that while Thai's have very good balance, they also have an advantage in their sport in that they can't be osoto'd.