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Pulling a TCK, eh?

I don't have a problem with SSM...I just don't think it is a fundemental and basic right. I don't think same sex couples are begin violated or wronged if society decides to only recognize traditional marriage. I personally define a marriage as a union between a man and a woman but if it will make half of the country all warm and fuzzy inside by recognizing SSM and potentially bring us closer as a society then I'm all for it. But I don't feel we have to.

Pretty straight forward and easy to follow. By "pulling a tck" you must me being 100% consistent and more importantly....100% correct.
 
Yeah I know...being all right and everything. I would give you like a 3 word reponse, never engage, and just throw peanuts from the sidelines but then I'd be pulling an Austin
 
Lol, over a year ago we explained to TCK why his notion of "traditional marriage" is merely a construction of the social relations required for capitalist industrial production.

Still fucking hasn't learned how wrong he is, still clinging to the idiotic narrative his preacher told him.
 
I've lost count of how many ssm threads where he posts against it but is supposedly for it.
Kinda like how he's supposedly a black guy. :icon_chee
 
Lol, over a year ago we explained to TCK why his notion of "traditional marriage" is merely a construction of the social relations required for capitalist industrial production.

Still fucking hasn't learned how wrong he is, still clinging to the idiotic narrative his preacher told him.

Who the hell is we? Ive had countless ssm debates and never have i seen this argument.

But go ahead a make it again for me...maybe ill learn this time.
 
Guys, why don't you understand TCK's position that gay marriage is both a horrendous sin against God and also completely against the American way and he will try his hardest to convince you of that but he's totally all for it?
 
Guys, why don't you understand TCK's position that gay marriage is both a horrendous sin against God and also completely against the American way and he will try his hardest to convince you of that but he's totally all for it?

Interesting. Ive never argued anything close to that but hey why start being honest now right?
 
Who the hell is we? Ive had countless ssm debates and never have i seen this argument.

But go ahead a make it again for me...maybe ill learn this time.

Heh, just looked through a number of old threads. I think I owe you an apology. From the ~15 minute search I did, it looks like all of the ssm/queer rights threads I've participated in, it was not you but other homophobes arguing against ssm from a "traditional marriage" argument.

For a quick rundown of why "traditional marriage" is anything but, you can look to posts 193, 194, and 195 in this thread:
http://forums.sherdog.com/forums/f5...oure-normal-so-should-you-2569293/index7.html
 
I don't have a problem with SSM...I just don't think it is a fundemental and basic right. I don't think same sex couples are begin violated or wronged if society decides to only recognize traditional marriage. I personally define a marriage as a union between a man and a woman but if it will make half of the country all warm and fuzzy inside by recognizing SSM and potentially bring us closer as a society then I'm all for it. But I don't feel we have to.

Pretty straight forward and easy to follow. By "pulling a tck" you must me being 100% consistent and more importantly....100% correct.

Consistent yes, straightforward LOL as always. This post really speaks for itself.
 
I'm not really trying to argue Polygamy should be outlawed, I'm arguing against the idea that "well, if we have gay marriage, we should have polygamy!!!!"

No, they are totally separate issues.

Traditional Marriage: A) Two people B) Different genders

Gay Marriage: A) Two people b) Same genders

Polygamous Marriage: a) More than two people B) Different genders

The relationship is clear and unequivocal. GM shares "A" with TM. PM shares "B".

You are making the claim that traditional marriage's number (two) is somehow more sacrosanct, and should be given greater weight and protection, than its gender relationship (male/female). On what are you basing this claim?
 
I don't see a problem with polygamy so long as it is consensual. It certainly complicates the tax picture (since rights related to taxation are one of the only governed by state recognition of couplings, and as a result are one of the only practices where equality concerns me). The reason it has such a bad reputation is that it's almost wholly promoted by religions which subjugate women (not to mention the less socially privileged men who go without), and specifically towards the end of bestowing multiple women on a single man with status in that subculture.

Where I get offended is when gay marriage is analogized to :eek::eek::eek::eek:philia or bestiality.

***
I continue to have serious problems with people arguing that his private donation (which is only "public" in the sense that it's a matter of public record which the intensely liberal LA Times made a point of splattering everywhere) being conflated with actual public speech or advocacy. I have a feeling many of those supporting gay marriage in here who don't mind seeing an antagonist scalped like this don't live in an area where they are a serious political minority as I do. My county's votes in the last elections broke down to ~86% Republican predisposition across the board, IIRC. If Eich is treated this way in the Bay, then I would fear to promulgate any opinions (no matter the arena) where I live without fear of retribution. If I expect tolerance, then I must reciprocate it in turn.
 
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I don't see a problem with polygamy so long as it is consensual. It certainly complicates the tax picture (since rights related to taxation are one of the only governed by state recognition of couplings, and as a result are one of the only practices where equality concerns me). The reason it has such a bad reputation is that it's almost wholly promoted by religions which subjugate women (not to mention the less socially privileged men who go without), and specifically towards the end of bestowing multiple women on a single man with status in that subculture.

Not to get into specifics but my interest in, and knowledge of, American polygamy is based on a very personal experience (now in my past). What most bystanders in the mainstream do not realize is that there exists a large, underground movement of folks - people who are not members of authoritarian religious sects - who feel drawn to this lifestyle. Though a show like Big Love (disclaimer: never watched it) is changing perceptions to some degree.

The only fundamental distinction that exists between the gay expansion of the traditional marriage construct and the polygamous one involves power and privilege.

There are many very wealthy and very influential homosexuals operating within American society. The same can in no way be said about polygamists (sure, there are a lot of rich and powerful guys with a wife and multiple mistresses... but they are the LAST guys looking to enter into loving, committed, lifelong, binding, contractual agreements with the girls they bang).

This is, sadly, the way "social change" operates most often in a capitalist society. It's bought by those who own sufficient social and political leverage.

But this is the (ironic) attitude I find so contemptible in the pro-gay crowd: "I'm not going to say that consenting adults should be denied the right to live a polygamous lifestyle. But, please, do not sully the beautiful and honorable institution of gay marriage by trying to equate it with something as untoward as polygamy." :rolleyes:
 
This is a prime example of why you should keep your own personal opinions to yourself and be a professional.
 
This is a prime example of why you should keep your own personal opinions to yourself and be a professional.

Or maybe it can be a perfect example of how the public needs to relax and stop acting like collective morons.
 
Not to get into specifics but my interest in, and knowledge of, American polygamy is based on a very personal experience (now in my past). What most bystanders in the mainstream do not realize is that there exists a large, underground movement of folks - people who are not members of authoritarian religious sects - who feel drawn to this lifestyle. Though a show like Big Love (disclaimer: never watched it) is changing perceptions to some degree.

The only fundamental distinction that exists between the gay expansion of the traditional marriage construct and the polygamous one involves power and privilege.
You're forgetting the other half to that equation; the other two key "P" words: "Practice" and "People".

In "practice", polygamy has historically been despicable, and often conflated with another 'p' word: :eek::eek::eek::eek:philia. Yes, they love marrying these girls off when they're 13. If polygamy has been misrepresented, and there is a subculture that isn't rooted in this sort of grotesque ideology, then it is their responsibility to represent themselves and to illuminate their distinctive culture. Homosexuals and their allies have worked hard to do this.

By "people" I mean numbers. Proportions. I don't think the number of polygamists equals the number of gays. The latter is a more prominent group, and by a huge margin. If you want to talk influence, then talk numbers.
There are many very wealthy and very influential homosexuals operating within American society. The same can in no way be said about polygamists (sure, there are a lot of rich and powerful guys with a wife and multiple mistresses... but they are the LAST guys looking to enter into loving, committed, lifelong, binding, contractual agreements with the girls they bang).

This is, sadly, the way "social change" operates most often in a capitalist society. It's bought by those who own sufficient social and political leverage.
Homosexuals have always been concealed in our ranks, and have always had powerful and privileged members of society. The shift in attitude has largely been one of dialogue and understanding. Gay's didn't "buy" their rights. That's a grossly inaccurate narrative you're imposing on the history of this civil struggle by allusion to some irrelevant socio-political theory. They've won sympathy by presenting themselves as fellow human beings with the same fundamental desires as heterosexuals- the desire to behave and acculture themselves identically, as equals, is only further evidence of the fact.
But this is the (ironic) attitude I find so contemptible in the pro-gay crowd: "I'm not going to say that consenting adults should be denied the right to live a polygamous lifestyle. But, please, do not sully the beautiful and honorable institution of gay marriage by trying to equate it with something as untoward as polygamy." :rolleyes:
I agree that from my libertarian point of view on the matter that I do not see a fundamental, humanistic difference that should be recognized by a neutral third party like the state. As long as people are adults, consenting, and free, then I don't care how they choose to engage sexually, or to cohabitate in what effectively functions as family.
 
What is not straight forward about that post? I can't imagine being anymore straight forward than that.

I am for society denying it but am also for society accepting it if it will make 50% plus happy, I'm not really against it but it's not a real right like traditional marriage. This combined with your posts supporting SSm after pages of trolling against it is just a cluster fuck. Lol at me even responding my bad.
 
I don't have a problem with SSM...I just don't think it is a fundemental and basic right. I don't think same sex couples are begin violated or wronged if society decides to only recognize traditional marriage. I personally define a marriage as a union between a man and a woman but if it will make half of the country all warm and fuzzy inside by recognizing SSM and potentially bring us closer as a society then I'm all for it. But I don't feel we have to.

Pretty straight forward and easy to follow. By "pulling a tck" you must me being 100% consistent and more importantly....100% correct.

It has nothing to do with people's feelings and everything to do with the piss poor arguments put forward by those who oppose.

Differences of opinion on slavery separated the country and we fought over it, but we are a better and stronger nation.

SSM isn't near that magnitude, but the arguments against are just as weak, if not weaker.
 
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