mount omoplata -> omoplata sweep, points?

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by slothofdoom, Jun 29, 2010.

  1. slothofdoom

    slothofdoom White Belt

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    lately in training I've been working on my omoplata from mount. It's working quite nicely and when it doesn't i almost always nail the omoplata sweep.

    so my question is will i get sweep points? or will it just depend on the ref?
     
  2. ShanghaiBJJ

    ShanghaiBJJ Brown Belt

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  3. bjornvil

    bjornvil Blue Belt

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    Wait... wat?




    Are you sweeping your opponent from mount??? To where?

    Sorry, just can't picture how to do a mounted omoplata and get a sweep in the process...
     
  4. Bruce Calavera

    Bruce Calavera Purple Belt

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    Sounds pretty simple. Guy on bottom gets turned to one side resulting in an omoplata. Then he rolls forward. It's more of a transition to side control than a sweep but it makes sense.
     
  5. SuperSuperRambo

    SuperSuperRambo Senior Moderator Senior Moderator

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    A sweep means you go from bottom to top. How is it a sweep if you're already on top?
     
  6. Solidus Snake

    Solidus Snake Purple Belt

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    Well, if you go from mount to omoplata, didn't you technically being in the same situation of being upa'ed-put in bottom closed guard? Then I think that if you give up the mount to attack the omoplata, and later you sweep again, you should be awarded the two points exactly in the same way of sweeping again a guy that bucked you from mount into closed guard. I always tought that, technically speaking, the omoplata was a guard itself... (I hope I make myself clear)

    But it's just my toughts... I don't really know what the rules say.

    EDIT: thinking about it a little more, maybe it's more a mounted-triangle like situation. They give you points if you sweep from triangle the first time, but not if you get reversed and sweep again, am I right?
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2010
  7. Rjay

    Rjay Green Belt

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    I think he means he goes from the mount, to an omoplata position (ie no longer has the mount), then the guy rolls over and he ends up on top. So does the transition from omoplata position -> omoplata sweep mean you get sweep points. Similarly, if I go for an armbar from mount, opponent defends, and I move back to mount, do I get points for taking the mount 2nd time?
     
  8. chris1190

    chris1190 Orange Belt

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    In my opinion I don't think you should get sweep points since you initiated the move and started on top but I could see the argument that if you have the omoplata in the the position to sweep then you are technically on bottom again and could get a sweep. I don't know if there is an official stance on this one or not.
     
  9. keynote

    keynote Purple Belt

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    The omoplata sweep from top position would not award you more points, and neither would re-mounting after your opponent defends an armbar. If he were to reguard, and you were to pass to mount or side control from there, then you'd be awarded more points.
     
  10. Sawoszao

    Sawoszao Yellow Belt

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    Depends for how long will you be in a stable position on the bottom. If its 3 secs it means you established a guard position and any reversals from there will count as sweeps e.g. give you 2 points. If you hold the position on bottom for less than 3 secs than it will not count as a sweep because there was no guard established. Thats if were talking IBJJF rules.
    Hope that helps.

    Edit: If u get reversed while attempting an armabar u end up in guard position. So, if u stabilize that position and reverse back after 3 or more secs it will award you 2 points for a sweep. Sam story. Remounting after an armbar attempt without being reversed most probably wont give you points but I'd have to check to be sure.
     
  11. SuperSuperRambo

    SuperSuperRambo Senior Moderator Senior Moderator

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    No, you don't.
     
  12. Mikey Triangles

    Mikey Triangles Bending Joints the Wrong Way Since 1985

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    It probably depends on the ref and your delivery. if it looks like he escaped mount and you just went right into your omoplata hold it for 3 and then you sweep him that's probably 2 points. If you just lock it in from mount as a submission and he rolls out then no, no points.
     
  13. ShanghaiBJJ

    ShanghaiBJJ Brown Belt

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    I actually think this is very clear cut.

    Because you are on top, you are not initiating the reversal from a guard position, which is necessary for getting sweep points. You are (voluntarily) rolling into a sub then your opponent turns with to escape the pressure. No guard anywhere there.
     
  14. DiscipleOfPog

    DiscipleOfPog Green Belt

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    ^This.

    For a technique to be considered a "sweep," your opponent had to have been reversed from within your guard (any kind of guard.) This is why you don't get points for an upa mount escape, nor do you get points for muscling a guy over from bottom side control to top side control. Although you went from bottom to top in both of these situations, your opponent was not in your guard.

    Going from the mount to an omoplata position and then back to side control, there was never really a point where your opponent would have been in your guard. I don't think points would be awarded. Unless you first rolled him into your guard and then immediately went omoplata, rather than setting it up directly from the mount.
     
  15. Sawoszao

    Sawoszao Yellow Belt

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    omoplata position IS a guard position, so
     
  16. keynote

    keynote Purple Belt

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    So you can remove yourself from a dominant position, to a 'neutral' position and sweep for points? That seems kinda silly.
     
  17. Sawoszao

    Sawoszao Yellow Belt

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    You can always think of better rules there even is a thread for that ;)

    He is not "removing" himself from a dominant position, he is going for a submission. If opponent manages to stop that submission attempt you can think of that as an escape on behalf of the opponent, just as if the opponent would bridge out or escape an armbar attempt.
     
  18. keynote

    keynote Purple Belt

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    It just struck me as weird is all, I'm no expert on the rules haha.
     
  19. Sawoszao

    Sawoszao Yellow Belt

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    Well it sometimes can be strange. I am guilty of allowing my opponent to bridge me during competition just so I could sweep him again. ;) IMO all rule sets re bound to have weak points. Its just the way it is.
     
  20. ShanghaiBJJ

    ShanghaiBJJ Brown Belt

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    No it isn't. It is a submission attempt. Any 'guard' HAS to involve any part of my opponents LEG between my leg(s).
     

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