Most overrated boxer ever.

Oh please. Toney & Bhop at the time of fighting Roy were favoured to beat him. He won both of those fights with relative ease. In fact, every single fight he fought up until he made the foolish move of gaining to fight HW then dropping all the way down again...was easy. So easy that he made good fighters look like amateurs.

Eubank himself said there was no point fighting Roy...he knew he would get schooled. Collins, Ben, none of them would have offered anything to a prime Jones. Honestly, if Toney struggled the way he did, those guys wouldnt have had a chance in hell. Thats how good Toney was and thats how good Roy was.

Never even seen him hurt slightly or barely touched in his peak days.
Eubank really said that? he was a solid fighter, great chin, great heart and tons of ability, that surprises me. I think those brits would have given Roy better fights than the Eddie Hall's and Richard Fraziers of the world. Roy fought a lot of hapless guys, Glen Kelly shouldn't have been anywhere near a title fight.
 
You think that Joshua 2 and Fury 1 were legitimate split decisions? I guess you also think that Canelo really only lost a majority decision against Mayweather then. A legitimate split decision is a fight that could've gone either way. Fury 1 & Joshua 2 were still clear Usyk victories even if they were somewhat close.

Fury 1 was definitely a legit split decision-- Fury was solidly ahead on all cards until the 8th round. I scored it a draw and could see how someone could score it for Fury.

AJ 2 SD was a little more questionable, but it still wasn't a dominate performance.

Usyk at HW is judged on a curve by fans due to him going up in weight.... but the fact is that he has very few fights at HW, and the big wins he has are decisions in competitive fights against guys past thier best.

I'm not saying that Usyk isn't the best HW at the moment, but it's crazy to see him on so many ATG HW lists.
 
Fury 1 was definitely a legit split decision-- Fury was solidly ahead on all cards until the 8th round. I scored it a draw and could see how someone could score it for Fury.

AJ 2 SD was a little more questionable, but it still wasn't a dominate performance.

Usyk at HW is judged on a curve by fans due to him going up in weight.... but the fact is that he has very few fights at HW, and the big wins he has are decisions in competitive fights against guys past thier best.

I'm not saying that Usyk isn't the best HW at the moment, but it's crazy to see him on so many ATG HW lists.

How are you guys scoring the fight for Fury? He got rocked in round 8?
 
Fury 1 was definitely a legit split decision-- Fury was solidly ahead on all cards until the 8th round. I scored it a draw and could see how someone could score it for Fury.

AJ 2 SD was a little more questionable, but it still wasn't a dominate performance.

Usyk at HW is judged on a curve by fans due to him going up in weight.... but the fact is that he has very few fights at HW, and the big wins he has are decisions in competitive fights against guys past thier best.

I'm not saying that Usyk isn't the best HW at the moment, but it's crazy to see him on so many ATG HW lists.
Fury 1 wasn't a legitimate SD. It was a competitive but clear win for Usyk and the general public (fans & media) agrees. Out of the 10 media outlet scores listed over at MMA Decisions only 1 of them had it for Fury and it was by a journalist that's known for laughable scoring. Clearly he has a Fury bias. Joshua 2? None of the 8 media scores listed over at MMA Decisions had it for Joshua. They all had it for Usyk.

PS. I'm also not sure how you managed to score Fury 1 a draw considering there was a knockdown.
 
Roy was so rarely hit, I saw him hurt less than five times in his prime. I saw him hit cleanly about as often. I don't necessarily think that's a good quality. A poor chin is a huge flaw for a boxer and I never thought his chin aged, he just didn't get clipped solidly very often. Toney caught him around the 7th round of their fight, Merqui Sosa had him out on his feet for a brief moment, Clinton Woods had him on the ropes looking vulnerable and Roy's own opinion of who hit him the hardest was a fight with Eddie Evans which is such poor quality it's hardly watchable. The rest of the time, Roy was kinda like Tyson, no one really dared to cut loose on him and when they did, he would take advantage of the extra openings with his superior power and speed. He did take out some tough hombres, Sosa was there to fight, there was a guy before him, same guy who'd just ended Mark Brelands career and he was taking it to Roy but Roy took him right out. One thing, no one had the speed and power together that Roy had. I still don't know what to do with him. As I said, a weak chin is a huge problem for a fighter and there is no telling when you're going to get hit. Roy was lucky to go as long as he did. I know of no other fighter who went that long without getting caught a helluva lot more. That goes for the faster guys and everyone else. No one gets away all the time, Roy just about did.
True. Roy didn't get hit much and when he did it usually wasn't that clean. I remember the Sosa fight. That guy was tough. In Roy's case he looked amazing for years only to abruptly crash and burn after moving back down from heavyweight. If there is one thing he did lack it was a granite chin.
 
Hagler is pretty overrated. Ali, obviously. Frazier as well. All those 70s HWs, really. Toney rates himself the greatest ever but his record is very poor. And Tyson.


As an obvious Hagler fan I'd say he gets tons of love for his highlights and character but fans usually don't rate him so high on all-time p4p lists that you could call him overrated. He's considered as a top tier MW with people routinely picking SRR, Greb or Monzon over him and that's pretty much where he belongs. As far as I'm concerned he's my favorite boxer ever but he's nowhere near a Top 10 P4P list. Love and ratings aren't exactly similar in this very case IMO.
 
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How are you guys scoring the fight for Fury? He got rocked in round 8?
He says that he scored it a draw but that isn't mathematically possible in Usyk vs Fury 1 unless he was scoring certain rounds even (which is just lazy). I also find it weird that anyone would defend that Split Decision result when the general consensus is that Fury lost. If it was truly a "split" decision then public opinion would be divided pretty much down the middle. Fury himself even admitted that he lost lol.

“Last time in May it was a fantastic fight, Oleksandr won the fight fair and square.”
Tyson Fury Makes Huge U-Turn On Result Of First Oleksandr Usyk Fight
 
People instantly see "overrated" as a negative term. It doesn't have to be. All it means is someone being rated higher than they should be. Floyd is a great example because as great as he was (he was, an incredible boxer) a lot of his accolades come from avoiding the biggest risks. Making sure he always had the advantage in the fight, protecting his "0" shit like that...

He would never do what Bud is doing or what Canelo did or what Pacman did. Floyd had to make sure everything fit his perfect plan before even throwing a punch. If I recall the only two times where it felt he didn't have a say was vs Oscar. Everything else never seemed like a risk. And after the Oscar fight, he waited out the contract obligation for a rematch by "retiring" then coming back when he wouldn't have to fight Oscar anymore. He was never going to give him a rematch and many people saw that fight as a draw.

A lot of his fights vs great champions came at a moment when those fights weren't that interesting anymore. Bigger financially for him? Maybe, but not as interesting to fans as the result was going to be obvious. Yes, he fought Cotto and Pacman and Mosley and Canelo but then you look at the point of their careers when they fought and the result was always going to be obvious.

Floyd was a master at taking the biggest possible reward for the least possible risk. That's how he operated inside and outside the ring and that's why he is who he is. Rich as shit and with his health intact.

Also, being fair, he isn't undefeated. Anyone who isn't a clear-cut Floyd fan knows he lost the first Castillo fight. Down to Compubox he lost that fight.

I am not planning on arguing this point btw. If you don't agree with my statement, good for you. I still think Floyd is an amazing defensive boxer but in the great scheme of things, when I see people saying shit like he is the greatest ever because he never lost. Here I am thinking. "God damn Tom Brady must suck then because he almost lost as many finals as he won" and Novak Djokovic better retire if every time he loses to Alcaras means he sucks.

Boxers need to stop fearing losing. Hopefully, Bud's risk changes this a little bit.

But we know what's going to happen. He'll lose and 80% of sherdog will go "HAHAHA BUD SUCKS"

But Floyd's ability as a boxer is so incredible that even when you don't overrate him he is still one of the best boxers I've ever seen.

If we go by actually overrating someone who simply isn't that good. Well shit, we have a lot of them. Haney and Teofimo, Joshua, Wilder. Older ones as said before, Prince Naz was a great example. I love Loma but I believe he is overrated. Although he is still great. Mike Tyson was a beast but obviously overrated, he lost his most important fights on top of some fights he never should have lost. An ultimate can crusher with some really good wins as well.

Ok, let's end my rant with an ever-bigger controversial one. Do you know who I ALWAYS thought was overrated as shit? Riddick Bowe. Yes, he was good but he is famous for three things overall. Having a great trilogy against a former cruiserweight. (as good as Evander was, if Riddick was as great as he was supposed to be, those fights should have been easy for him)

2. Getting pummeled to the nuts by Golota, who he should have beaten with ease. People forget how good Golota was doing in these fights and Golota SUCKED. He had the talent and the power but he had an IQ of 5.

3. Chickening the shit ouf ot fighting Lennox Lewis. (as was the norm back in the day, they all avoided him like the plague)

I just never liked Bowe.

Wow very well said, thank you for sharing your thoughts.
 
He says that he scored it a draw but that isn't mathematically possible in Usyk vs Fury 1 unless he was scoring certain rounds even (which is just lazy). I also find it weird that anyone would defend that Split Decision result when the general consensus is that Fury lost. If it was truly a "split" decision then public opinion would be divided pretty much down the middle. Fury himself even admitted that he lost lol.


Tyson Fury Makes Huge U-Turn On Result Of First Oleksandr Usyk Fight

Even scoring it as a draw is nuts
 
Even scoring it as a draw is nuts
Yep. Fury deserved to win about 4 rounds maybe 5 if we're being generous. That would give Usyk 7 or 8 rounds plus the knockdown. There's no case to be made for Fury having won the fight.
 
Yep. Fury deserved to win about 4 rounds maybe 5 if we're being generous. That would give Usyk 7 or 8 rounds plus the knockdown. There's no case to be made for Fury having won the fight.

Yep. 2nd fight was close until Usyk dominated halfway
 
Probably is actually Muhammad Ali, tbh, even though he’s obviously top echelon of the ATGs.
He's great, but enough people put him over guys like Sugar Ray Robinson, Henry Armstrong, Robert Duran, etc. for him to be overrated IMO.

I in no way shape or form believe Bill Cayton's claim that he scientifically tested it and found Ali to be faster than Robinson. Baloney.

But that said, he was really, really great. And I think career heavyweights are sorta hard to measure against guys from other classes in some ways.
 
He beat Hopkins & Tarver. Who else should he have fought? Prime RJJ is in no way overrated. He was spectacular. Definitely in the top 5 of all time.
He was spectacular and decisively beating a young Hopkins and James Toney is an all-time great accomplishment, period, no ifs and ands or buts. But at the same time, he was incredibly selective about his opposition and very open about it as well. He's great, but leave so many stones unturned throughout his career does complicate his legacy. I mean, guys like Frankie Liles, Steve Collins, McClellan, Dariusz...he just sorta stayed away from obvious "question erasing" fights. I think a big thing was making sure that things were on his terms, all the time, which meant he fought opposition that was actually quite good but which only hardcore boxing fans could appreciate and even then, only with great effort because even if his opposition was consistently good, there was always the shadow of the more interesting unfought fights hanging over it.

I really think Hopkins-Jones jr. 2 in the early 2000's would've been all-time great fight. Those were two guys that didn't know how to lose, guys that didn't lose focus or really even make mistakes.
 
Roy was so rarely hit, I saw him hurt less than five times in his prime. I saw him hit cleanly about as often. I don't necessarily think that's a good quality. A poor chin is a huge flaw for a boxer and I never thought his chin aged, he just didn't get clipped solidly very often. Toney caught him around the 7th round of their fight, Merqui Sosa had him out on his feet for a brief moment, Clinton Woods had him on the ropes looking vulnerable and Roy's own opinion of who hit him the hardest was a fight with Eddie Evans which is such poor quality it's hardly watchable. The rest of the time, Roy was kinda like Tyson, no one really dared to cut loose on him and when they did, he would take advantage of the extra openings with his superior power and speed. He did take out some tough hombres, Sosa was there to fight, there was a guy before him, same guy who'd just ended Mark Brelands career and he was taking it to Roy but Roy took him right out. One thing, no one had the speed and power together that Roy had. I still don't know what to do with him. As I said, a weak chin is a huge problem for a fighter and there is no telling when you're going to get hit. Roy was lucky to go as long as he did. I know of no other fighter who went that long without getting caught a helluva lot more. That goes for the faster guys and everyone else. No one gets away all the time, Roy just about did.
Yeah, Sosa hit so hard and was so strong Roy decided he needed to end the night early. That’s fucking WILD, dude just DECIDED to end the night, and I definitely understand the legacy Roy left behind, I just wish his HL reel included him protecting his chin and destroying guys like Collin’s or McClellan, so I wouldn’t have to refer to the guy as rated any lower than I want to rate him. I think his chin was weak, personally, which makes it astounding how long he went untested.
 
Yeah, Sosa hit so hard and was so strong Roy decided he needed to end the night early. That’s fucking WILD, dude just DECIDED to end the night, and I definitely understand the legacy Roy left behind, I just wish his HL reel included him protecting his chin and destroying guys like Collin’s or McClellan, so I wouldn’t have to refer to the guy as rated any lower than I want to rate him. I think his chin was weak, personally, which makes it astounding how long he went untested.
I still don't know what to make of it. Like I say, that's a mammoth deficit for any fighter. There have been fighters way better known for their defense and that got caught and put down or hurt. Camacho, Ali in the 60's, Wilfredo Benitez and Pernell, all known to be defensive whizzes at least for a portion of their careers and all of them got caught with solid punches all along their career. The ones with great chins, (Ali, Camacho) could take it, the ones with lesser chins would go down more or like Benitez were known to have glass jaws.

I think roy was so formidable offensively that he could handle these guys when they came after him, I still don't get why he wasn't caught sooner though. It's almost magical to avoid a real punch for that long.

Sosa was a rarity, he wasn't particularly gifted but he was tough, he wasn't gonna just lay down like so many Roy opponents. He was gonna go out swinging and a case could be made that that fight was stopped a tad prematurely. Roy gets his props though, he felt the power and realized he had to turn it way up and he did.
 
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