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Not even saying that. Guy obviously is in the conversation for both greatest HW and p4p.
Problem I have is to the casuals who declare him the greatest boxer ever “and it’s not even close”.
Most overrated boxer ever.
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Not even saying that. Guy obviously is in the conversation for both greatest HW and p4p.
Problem I have is to the casuals who declare him the greatest boxer ever “and it’s not even close”.
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To be honest I don't have a goat boxer or MMA fighter. I'm not very good at digesting old footage and comparing it to modern standards. Eras make a huge difference. Different eras have different rules, different training, different everything. We could shift the debate into how to break down the eras but then we'd all end up bickering over that.
I also think it's easier to attach more importance to bygone boxers due to the sport as a whole diluting itself, and to much importance being put on records and not on entertainment.
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Of course, yeah.
Recency bias vs nostalgia bias.
Truth be told, all athletic endeavors have improved greatly in the last 50 years, so it stands to reason likes of Usyk and Bivol should be way ahead of likes of Ali and Robinson in pure head to heads, but it’s obviously unfair to compare like that.
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Clearly by your troll list no one has ever been good nor will be.
We all may as well stop watching combat sports.
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Yes sir. These goat talks are one of the reasons why we can't have nice things, managers and promoters protect their fighters from adversity. Leonard's record for example might be viewed as subpar today because of losses. I've read enough from people who discount any fight against a guy with no wiki, completely disregarding career arch. I hate goat talk, but I like boxing talk. So that why I'm here
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Split decisions decisive?
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You think that Joshua 2 and Fury 1 were legitimate split decisions? I guess you also think that Canelo really only lost a majority decision against Mayweather then. A legitimate split decision is a fight that could've gone either way. Fury 1 & Joshua 2 were still clear Usyk victories even if they were somewhat close.
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You said split to decisions to me saying most of his wins were decisive? He had two split decisions....so I'm correct then
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We see a lot of dubious decisions in boxing like those two. They almost always tend to favor the A-side or the home fighter. A legitimate Split Decision would actually involve public opinion being split as to who won the fight. That wasn't the case with Usyk vs Joshua 2 or Usyk vs Fury 1. In both of those fights fan & media scoring was lopsidedly in favor of Usyk. Fans only gave Fury 4 rounds (not to mention he was dropped) and the same goes for Joshua. Joshua's own promoter, Eddie Hearn, scoffed at the judge that scored it for his fighter. The outcome was never in doubt in either of these fights if scored properly.
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Tyson Fury, certainly one of the most overrated heavyweights of the past 25 years
Also Bud Crawford, one of the most overrated welterweights of the past 25 years. Heed my words, history will not look kindly on Crawford once he retires
Also Bud Crawford, one of the most overrated welterweights of the past 25 years. Heed my words, history will not look kindly on Crawford once he retires
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I never looked at Tyson as overrated. Thought he was a very skilled HW despite his disadvantages in that class(shorter, smaller overall, shorter reach). He was crazy fast and had excellent movement. He was misguided and had way too many crutches & demons.
Prince Naseem wasnt so much overrated as he was lazy. Even Emanuel Steward stated his biggest weakness was not wanting to listen to instruction and being lazy as f.
Fury....definitely overrated.
Prince Naseem wasnt so much overrated as he was lazy. Even Emanuel Steward stated his biggest weakness was not wanting to listen to instruction and being lazy as f.
Fury....definitely overrated.
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Oh please. Toney & Bhop at the time of fighting Roy were favoured to beat him. He won both of those fights with relative ease. In fact, every single fight he fought up until he made the foolish move of gaining to fight HW then dropping all the way down again...was easy. So easy that he made good fighters look like amateurs.
Eubank himself said there was no point fighting Roy...he knew he would get schooled. Collins, Ben, none of them would have offered anything to a prime Jones. Honestly, if Toney struggled the way he did, those guys wouldnt have had a chance in hell. Thats how good Toney was and thats how good Roy was.
Never even seen him hurt slightly or barely touched in his peak days.
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I like Roy in fantasy fights too, doesn’t mean those assumptions count for shit, the fights never happened.
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People instantly see "overrated" as a negative term. It doesn't have to be. All it means is someone being rated higher than they should be. Floyd is a great example because as great as he was (he was, an incredible boxer) a lot of his accolades come from avoiding the biggest risks. Making sure he always had the advantage in the fight, protecting his "0" shit like that...
He would never do what Bud is doing or what Canelo did or what Pacman did. Floyd had to make sure everything fit his perfect plan before even throwing a punch. If I recall the only two times where it felt he didn't have a say was vs Oscar. Everything else never seemed like a risk. And after the Oscar fight, he waited out the contract obligation for a rematch by "retiring" then coming back when he wouldn't have to fight Oscar anymore. He was never going to give him a rematch and many people saw that fight as a draw.
A lot of his fights vs great champions came at a moment when those fights weren't that interesting anymore. Bigger financially for him? Maybe, but not as interesting to fans as the result was going to be obvious. Yes, he fought Cotto and Pacman and Mosley and Canelo but then you look at the point of their careers when they fought and the result was always going to be obvious.
Floyd was a master at taking the biggest possible reward for the least possible risk. That's how he operated inside and outside the ring and that's why he is who he is. Rich as shit and with his health intact.
Also, being fair, he isn't undefeated. Anyone who isn't a clear-cut Floyd fan knows he lost the first Castillo fight. Down to Compubox he lost that fight.
I am not planning on arguing this point btw. If you don't agree with my statement, good for you. I still think Floyd is an amazing defensive boxer but in the great scheme of things, when I see people saying shit like he is the greatest ever because he never lost. Here I am thinking. "God damn Tom Brady must suck then because he almost lost as many finals as he won" and Novak Djokovic better retire if every time he loses to Alcaras means he sucks.
Boxers need to stop fearing losing. Hopefully, Bud's risk changes this a little bit.
But we know what's going to happen. He'll lose and 80% of sherdog will go "HAHAHA BUD SUCKS"
But Floyd's ability as a boxer is so incredible that even when you don't overrate him he is still one of the best boxers I've ever seen.
If we go by actually overrating someone who simply isn't that good. Well shit, we have a lot of them. Haney and Teofimo, Joshua, Wilder. Older ones as said before, Prince Naz was a great example. I love Loma but I believe he is overrated. Although he is still great. Mike Tyson was a beast but obviously overrated, he lost his most important fights on top of some fights he never should have lost. An ultimate can crusher with some really good wins as well.
Ok, let's end my rant with an ever-bigger controversial one. Do you know who I ALWAYS thought was overrated as shit? Riddick Bowe. Yes, he was good but he is famous for three things overall. Having a great trilogy against a former cruiserweight. (as good as Evander was, if Riddick was as great as he was supposed to be, those fights should have been easy for him)
2. Getting pummeled to the nuts by Golota, who he should have beaten with ease. People forget how good Golota was doing in these fights and Golota SUCKED. He had the talent and the power but he had an IQ of 5.
3. Chickening the shit ouf ot fighting Lennox Lewis. (as was the norm back in the day, they all avoided him like the plague)
I just never liked Bowe.
He would never do what Bud is doing or what Canelo did or what Pacman did. Floyd had to make sure everything fit his perfect plan before even throwing a punch. If I recall the only two times where it felt he didn't have a say was vs Oscar. Everything else never seemed like a risk. And after the Oscar fight, he waited out the contract obligation for a rematch by "retiring" then coming back when he wouldn't have to fight Oscar anymore. He was never going to give him a rematch and many people saw that fight as a draw.
A lot of his fights vs great champions came at a moment when those fights weren't that interesting anymore. Bigger financially for him? Maybe, but not as interesting to fans as the result was going to be obvious. Yes, he fought Cotto and Pacman and Mosley and Canelo but then you look at the point of their careers when they fought and the result was always going to be obvious.
Floyd was a master at taking the biggest possible reward for the least possible risk. That's how he operated inside and outside the ring and that's why he is who he is. Rich as shit and with his health intact.
Also, being fair, he isn't undefeated. Anyone who isn't a clear-cut Floyd fan knows he lost the first Castillo fight. Down to Compubox he lost that fight.
I am not planning on arguing this point btw. If you don't agree with my statement, good for you. I still think Floyd is an amazing defensive boxer but in the great scheme of things, when I see people saying shit like he is the greatest ever because he never lost. Here I am thinking. "God damn Tom Brady must suck then because he almost lost as many finals as he won" and Novak Djokovic better retire if every time he loses to Alcaras means he sucks.
Boxers need to stop fearing losing. Hopefully, Bud's risk changes this a little bit.
But we know what's going to happen. He'll lose and 80% of sherdog will go "HAHAHA BUD SUCKS"
But Floyd's ability as a boxer is so incredible that even when you don't overrate him he is still one of the best boxers I've ever seen.
If we go by actually overrating someone who simply isn't that good. Well shit, we have a lot of them. Haney and Teofimo, Joshua, Wilder. Older ones as said before, Prince Naz was a great example. I love Loma but I believe he is overrated. Although he is still great. Mike Tyson was a beast but obviously overrated, he lost his most important fights on top of some fights he never should have lost. An ultimate can crusher with some really good wins as well.
Ok, let's end my rant with an ever-bigger controversial one. Do you know who I ALWAYS thought was overrated as shit? Riddick Bowe. Yes, he was good but he is famous for three things overall. Having a great trilogy against a former cruiserweight. (as good as Evander was, if Riddick was as great as he was supposed to be, those fights should have been easy for him)
2. Getting pummeled to the nuts by Golota, who he should have beaten with ease. People forget how good Golota was doing in these fights and Golota SUCKED. He had the talent and the power but he had an IQ of 5.
3. Chickening the shit ouf ot fighting Lennox Lewis. (as was the norm back in the day, they all avoided him like the plague)
I just never liked Bowe.
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Long may it continue! Bunch o' bums
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There's no need to be defensive. Roy was nearly untouchable in his prime. We agree on that. However, you said that you'd never seen him even slightly hurt at his best. All I did was show you differently. Lou Del Valle dropped him in his prime. This was in 1998 when Roy was at light heavyweight.
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Lots of older fans don't see anything special with Floyd. Personally, I never thought he was as good as Roy Jones and Roy isn't the pfp greatest ever either.
I always thought Naz was overrated during his prime but at the same time, apparently, the guys he was beating were champions or highly experienced pros. Alls I saw was Naz getting hurt and pulling out close fights with his power. But no less an authority than Barry McGuigan said he was a great fighter so maybe I'm wrong. I was glad when he finally lost. Legendary power and a huge heart. Not everyone can pull a punch out of their ass when they're in trouble, that takes a lot of heart. So, I give the devil his due.
Riddick was a truly solid fighter for the first Holyfield fight, he showed a ton of promise after which, he was given too many opportunities by the boxing press and the fans. Almost every performance was unimpressive and yet the press was still calling him, "the best heavyweight in the world". He was capable but it takes more than one fight to be great or to build a legacy and that's pretty much all he had in my opinion. He handily beat a couple overmatched challengers, then lost to Holyfield and went on a spree of unimpressive showings against contenders. All the while, coming in a minimum of 10 pounds over his best fighting weight. On the night he beat Holyfield I think he would have been a handful for just about anyone, including Lennox. A big man who could fight at different ranges and pre-fury, threw a ton of punches which big men aren't supposed to be able to do. Tragically, he had a short shelf life and was clearly damaged way beyond his years after Golota 2.
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Roy was so rarely hit, I saw him hurt less than five times in his prime. I saw him hit cleanly about as often. I don't necessarily think that's a good quality. A poor chin is a huge flaw for a boxer and I never thought his chin aged, he just didn't get clipped solidly very often. Toney caught him around the 7th round of their fight, Merqui Sosa had him out on his feet for a brief moment, Clinton Woods had him on the ropes looking vulnerable and Roy's own opinion of who hit him the hardest was a fight with Eddie Evans which is such poor quality it's hardly watchable. The rest of the time, Roy was kinda like Tyson, no one really dared to cut loose on him and when they did, he would take advantage of the extra openings with his superior power and speed. He did take out some tough hombres, Sosa was there to fight, there was a guy before him, same guy who'd just ended Mark Brelands career and he was taking it to Roy but Roy took him right out. One thing, no one had the speed and power together that Roy had. I still don't know what to do with him. As I said, a weak chin is a huge problem for a fighter and there is no telling when you're going to get hit. Roy was lucky to go as long as he did. I know of no other fighter who went that long without getting caught a helluva lot more. That goes for the faster guys and everyone else. No one gets away all the time, Roy just about did.
