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Most Easy and Safe Takedowns and Throws for Sport BJJ

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by Luther, May 24, 2008.

  1. Luther Green Belt

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    By Sport Bjj I mean brazilian jiu jitsu competition WITH GI and IFBJJ rules.

    By Easy and Safe I mean moves that do not require exceptional attributes (strength, explosiveness, flexibility, speed) but rely more on technique and timing. Also moves that are high percentage and low risk.

    Keep in mind sport bjj players have a low, usually bent over stance. They also have not limits on unorthodox grips (like judo) and can pull guard -- which you should avoid or block/counter.

    E.g.: from my point of view the classical judo forward throws (seoi, uchimata, harai goshi, etc.) do not satisfy this thread requirements. In fact they require A LOT of dedicated practice, some expose your back and do not work well against the lower posture of bjj players.

    Wrestling doubles are difficult to get because of the jacket. Also you can get caught in guillotine or guard.

    Singles are difficult to finish, but I've seen them used.

    Trips and sweeps, together with sacrifice throws seems to be relatively safe and effective.

    So my reply to the topic would be:

    - sumi gaeshi variants (like hikkikomi)
    - trips like ouchi/kouchi gari followed by single leg or knee/ankle picks
     
  2. NinjaKilla187 Blue Belt

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    Hey, what do you think would happen if I started a thread here asking what handful of BJJ techniques I could learn really quick that wouldn't require much training time or any athletic ability but would allow me to sub everybody I played against at will? Hm...just wondering.
     
  3. hayliks Banned Banned

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    takedowns are based on technique and timing, if you ever think/thought otherwise you're an absolute moron.

    there is no definitive "safe, high percentage" takedown, not even possible to suggest some. it's impossible to name some. i could name takedowns i'm comfortable with and can do on a regular basis, but that wouldn't help you at all. it took me years to get good at these takedowns, nothing comes overnight, especially the highly undertrained standing game.
     
  4. Balto Silver Belt

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    I have found uchi mata to be effective against the typical BJJ posture.

    It is tough to do against someone with very stiff arms, but if you practice your grip fighting you can usually break these down. Then the uchi mata is very easy against the bent over stance.

    I don't know that it requires an incredible amount of dedicated practice either. Perhaps it just comes naturally to me, but I have been able to use it effectively in BJJ tournament settings without having practiced it extensively by typical Judo standards.

    I definitely do favor the leg techniques for BJJ though. Lately I use mostly de ashi barai, ouchi gari, and kouchi gari to make my opponent move. I use uchi mata if I feel I have the opening. Uchi mata is a leg technique the way I do it, so it fits nicely with the others.
     
  5. Luther Green Belt

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    First, please don't call moron a person you don't even know, and has a history on sherdog for not being a troll. I'm pretty sure if we were face to face you wouldn't have called me that way.

    Second, takedowns require different attributes, some are more based on power (forward throws) some on timing (sweeps). Do not get stuck in definitions, all is relative, good technique is always needed.

    If you want to contribute to the thread you are welcome, otherwise please ignore it.
     
  6. Q mystic Silver Belt

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    If you insist on straight bjj Luther then I gaurantee you want to learn the ko-uchi. Gaurantee it.

    The easiest, most effective AND thee safest attack out there aside from taking a whole lifetime it seems(imo) to become dangerous at footsweeps.

    All you need at min is one sleeve grip.

    It does take time but when you have it you'll love it.

    Take the time for the kata with it. It is the same and if you really got the kata down, you got the tech. Not so with many other techs. Imo.

    No question.
     
  7. YeahBee Samdog Original Nine

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    Some throws can be midified as "going to your knees" attacks, Ippon Seonage and KAtagurmu for example

    If they are bent forwardjsut use it to off balance them more, yank them into a hiza guruma or get a grip on their back, tao otoshi with back grip for example
     
  8. Luther Green Belt

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    Thanks for your contribute.

    To be fair I had the impression that uchi mata could be a valid answer to the thread. However I read from a David Camarillo interview that he was somewhat dubious about its effectiveness in sport bjj. He even talks about that in his instructional -- saying that any forward throw is basically a one shot in bjj, and if you miss you can get in trouble. Also he adds that uchi mata can be risky because of single legs: in judo you throw and get ippon, in bjj he rolls over the back and probably ends up on top of half guard.

    The above is from Camarillo, a player that I like for his philosophy of blending judo and bjj.

    Do you have any particular tips for using uchi mata successfully in bjj?

    Is there any vid of you doing it the way you like?
     
  9. YeahBee Samdog Original Nine

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  10. Luther Green Belt

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    Thanks YeahBee.
     
  11. Luther Green Belt

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    I agree, footsweeps are REALLY nasty, and not matter how big or strong your opponent is, he will go down.

    By kata what do you mean?

    kata-guruma?

    Don't you think it requires quite and amount of athleticism?
     
  12. hayliks Banned Banned

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    If you believe what you wrote here, then yes you are a moron, and yes I will call you a moron to your face.

    If you think that throws require power, than you missed the whole point of them. They are all technique and mostly require you to off balance your opponent.
     
  13. vitor3000 Blue Belt

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    I def agree with the sumi-gaeshi. With almost every bjjer standing up with a low posture while standing, its easy to get a good, deep grip on their gi or on their belt and flip em over. Also, with bjjers playing low, you can easily go for a front headlock/guillontine and snap em down.
     
  14. YeahBee Samdog Original Nine

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    Luther Kata= training a set of throws or a single throw in a repetive manner with the same pattern
     
  15. Q mystic Silver Belt

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    I tried Kouchi many times from just being shown and I never could get it. I was later shown the judo kata(the textbook move) and I did it where they show the 1/2 step and it clicked. Next thing was that I put the 2 together and it worked and has been a fave for feeling out and lookin mean:icon_lol:


    The kata will give you the feel for timing on when you will recog your oppnent is off balance. The yank at 1st to find it and the full --leg out the inner thigh...or just hooking the ankle with yours after having found it will make it work.

    You will get 2 from this easy at no threat and be able to step around, if not go up high with attacking foot to knee/belly. No real defence/counter to it really.

    It does take patience to learn tho as it is really uneventful in learning it, but its good and fast.

    Athletic? no. It helps but it also is just a good strong attack, the real grappling jab, if failed.
     
  16. Zankou Bringing peace and love Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    IMHO as a non-judoka/wrestler, it's all about the kouchi, single leg, drop seionage, and ankle pick.

    Takedowns like double legs and uchimatas are superb, but good luck at developing them to a workable level without years of standup.

    It is not too hard to develop a workable single leg, by contrast.
     
  17. Q mystic Silver Belt

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    heyyy...thats uchikomi isn't it?:D
     
  18. Luther Green Belt

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    If you ever come to Naples, Italy, you are welcome to my academy and to say I'm a moron in person.

    Regarding the strength/power issue if you have competed in judo (or any sport) you should know better.
     
  19. Luther Green Belt

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    Good alternative.
     
  20. Balto Silver Belt

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    It's true that rolling over to the bottom position can be a problem in uchi mata. However, I do think it's possible to train it so that you end up on top more consistently. I have been trying to focus on that lately.

    Also, the current IBJJF rules state this with regards to takedowns:

    "Observation 4: When a competitor throws his opponent and ends up in a bottom position the competitor throwing will receive 2 points and the opponent on top will receive an advantage. If the competitor executing the throw lands in his opponents guard and is swept, both will receive 2 points."

    My interpretation of that would be that if you execute uchi mata and end up in the bottom position, you have scored 2 points while your opponent gets only an advantage. Although it has essentially become an elaborate way of pulling guard if that happens, as long as I score two points for it, I think it's worth the effort. It also can knock the wind out of the opponent sometimes because if he tries to roll you over he will usually land hard on his back/side to do so.

    I have read Dave Camarillo's opinion on this before, and I see where he is coming from. However, I don't really think it's a one time shot in most cases. If I miss the uchi mata, I can usually use the throwing leg as a hook to help me spin back into some kind of guard. In some cases I will also just turtle and work from there. The turtle isn't really as simple to attack as many people seem to think, so I don't mind working my turtle on occasion if the takedown fails. If you fail a shot badly you can end up on bottom in the turtle as well, but that doesn't seem to discourage people from using those takedowns.

    I'll try to find a video of me using the uchi mata in competition. Not that my technique is a good example to go off because I personally think it's still a little sloppy, but it could give you an idea.
     

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