Modern Army Combatives (hand-to-hand, BJJ, Muay-thai etc) -VIDEO-

[devante]

I understand what you are saying but there is the reality of time constraints. Army basic training is 10 weeks and Marines is 13 weeks I think. The main difference is every Marine is trained to be a rifleman/infantry.

You need to train people in first aid, marksmanship, familiarization with other weapon systems, land navigation, radio procedures, small unit tactics.....ect. The time for H2H training is pretty minimal maybe a week in basic if you are lucky. The Marine program MMAP is very similar but I personally don't think it's as good as the premise of the army program. You have to understand that the military training system is designed to train people in a manner and speed that very stupid people can learn to be soldiers/marines/sailors/airmen so there is only so much time.

Now when soldiers get to units they have jobs to do, maintain equipment, do paperwork, clean crap and such. There is very little duty time that can be dedicated to H2H training. In fact it is supposed to be a supplement to the morning physical training which is done normally three times a week.

Finally two last points, one if our soldiers are stuck in hand to hand situations, shit has gone bad really quick. Remember this is going to be used after the options of airstrike/artillery, direct fire weapons like machine guns, personal rifle and grenades, and finally bayonet fixed rifle are either exhausted or not viable. That is a very rare situation.

The second point is despite everything the military really doesn't want a bunch of bad asses running around kicking the crap out of civilians when they go on leave and get drunk.

As far as the guy that taught combatives that sucked, well he was probably the dumb bastard that volunteered, and you know what they say about volunteering in the military. Skill had little or nothing to do with it.

i never been in the military; but i have quite a few friends and family who did, an as stated they don't focus on hand to hand cus if it gets to that point ALL HELL has broken out and your in big trouble.

i think the training is to dev a basic, rudimentary skillset and strategy to allow you to eff DEFEND yourself in and when it gets to that point; not to make you a top figher; its war they train you for, being able to hook off the jab and use a rolling kneebar aren't as high a priority as a limited amount of skills/techs the person can learn drill and adjust for their style or ability.

i would think the guys coming out of the military would be aware of this; but if in fact they are onyl training w/a group of ok to mediocre grapplers/strikers, then of course they think they are better than they are...they can only gauge their skill on the level of the guys they face on a day to day basis.

its like training at a grappling club and having no knowledge or exp, as u get better u feel u have legit skill and ability; but as u get out more, compete or train diff places u realize the lower class or caliber of ur instruction and partners.

 

[JRT6]

From what I gather, I feel like they teach a bunch of basic techniques that might apply to a self-defense or fight situation, but probably don't emphasize a whole lot of correct and sharp fundamentals. I've only rolled with one guy that did this program and he sucked, but he talked as if he believed he was a good grappler. He could armbar, kimura, americana, yet couldn't pass the guard, was getting swept with little effort, couldn't get out of side control, etc.

That is because MAC is designed to give the soldier exposure to the probable not the possilble. I really really doubt a terrorist is going to pull guard in a battle. The first priorty of anyone on the ground in a real fight is to get up not go for a toe hold.

 

[dbowles]

Marines do that too I think..Infact I think they have a big tournament where marines, army, air force, navy ETC all get together and have an MMA like tournament.

It's a great idea. It encourages them to train, but really, you want competent soldiers? TRAIN THEM, don't encourage them to train...FUCKING TRAIN THEM.

The time spent training MAC or Marine martial arts(whatever they call it these days) isn't close to enough, in my opinion.

I know a white belt, and not only was he a white belt, but he SUCKED...and you know what he did for the army? he TAUGHT combatives. That's who we have training out soldiers?

I know for a fact that at Fort Riley, KS, the MAC instructors are top notch. ( brown belts under DANIEL MONTANHA DE LIMA). And the Fort Riley team trains outside the basics received. Here at KSU they also teach level I, II and III to students and athletes, and the material is basically they same:
Combatives Class Schedule

Week 1
Session 1 History

Session 2 Dominant body position review.



Week 2

Session 3 Trap and roll (Escape Mount Practical exercise)

Session 4 Pass the guard


Week 3

Session 5 Achieve the mount/Drill 1

Session 6 Drill 1


Week 4


Session 7 Rachet to rear mount/Achieve rear mount

Session 8 Escape Rear mount/Drill 2 (Roll for dominant body positions.)


Week 5


Session 9 Shrimp to guard/Shrimp Drill

Session 10 Shrimp to guard/Armbar from guard/Armbar from guard drill



Week 6

Session 11 Shrimp to guard/Missed armbar sweep

Session 12 Shrimp to guard Scissor sweep/modified scissor sweep


Week 7

Session 13 Drill 3/Read naked choke

Session 14 Review


Week 8

Session 15 Armbar from mount/Armbar from mount drill

Session 16 Bent armbar, Drill 1 w/ submissions


Week 9

Session 17 Drill 1 warm-up/Roll

Session 18 Drill 2 warm-up/Roll


Week 10

Session 19 Drill 3 warm-up/Roll

Session 20 Drill 1 warm-up/Roll


Week 11

Session 21 Drill 2 warm-up/Roll

Session 22 Drill 3 warm-up/Roll


Week 12

Session 23 Tournament intro

Session 24 Tournament


Week 13

Session 25 Film All Army Combatives

Session 26 Takedowns


Week 14

Session 27 Guillotine choke standing/guard

Session 28 Review


Week 15

Session 29 Brave heart exercise

Session30 Striking on the ground


And having gone through level one, and training outside of it, I can say that 95% of the people still suck after weak 15

 

[trapperdrew]

Marine Corps Martial Arts Program - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I made it to green belt instructor before I got out in 04.

 

[devante]

the military guys i grappled or sparred were all really well conditioned and very physical; like controlled but ridiculously aggressive, which caused some strategic problems and resulted in thinggs getting a bit out of hand on a few occassions, esp when doing mma type sparring

 

[SMillard]

the military guys i grappled or sparred were all really well conditioned and very physical; like controlled but ridiculously aggressive, which caused some strategic problems and resulted in thinggs getting a bit out of hand on a few occassions, esp when doing mma type sparring

In this is an inherent conflict between the philosophy of the training and the needs of the soldier. The combatives is based off Gracie Jiu Jitsu, which all along in training we have been taught to take our time, don't rush things treat the fight like a marathon and wait out your opponents mistake. This is going to be completely opposite for the needs of soldiers who need to resolve the situation as quickly as possible. That's why you experienced that aggressive attitude.

 

[stewy37]

Your good military fighters are going to be the ones that do it in their free time. I know when I was in, we hardly ever did MCMAP, and when we did, it was usually a conditioning drill with a focus on continually moving and being aggressive instead of a focus on technique. It's just not that high a priority. I saw a list of 101 things a rifleman should know, and hand to hand combat wasn't even on it. Much more important to know your weapons systems, IA drills, radio procedures, etc.

Besides, you can sum up the hand to hand philosophy like this:
1. You're wearing body armor and gear that weighs approximately 50lbs. Slam in to the guy and crush him.
2. Hit him with whatever you have available: knife, rifle, rock, can of soup, wtf ever you can grab.
3. If that doesn't finish him off, you should have held him off long enough for your buddy to come over and shoot hte bastard, crush his head, etc.

4. Even more simply: Use a weapon and use a buddy. CHEAT!

 

[lawyersgunsnmon]

LINE or MCMAP or whatever they call it today is just a basic fight skill set. Nothing advanced.

Every smart Marine will tell you that his rifle is where the action lies. Shoot your enemy in war. If you run out of ammo, pick up your dead buddy or dead enemy's rifle and continue to shoot. There is a reason that you spend 2 weeks at the range in basic and the first medals received are for marksmanship.

TMA, MMA, Judo, BJJ, Kenpo, Muay Thai, boxing, Kajukenbo, aikido, krav maga, sambo, tsang doo, tkd, wing chun, etc. are all wonderful and fun sports. The United State Marine Corps infantry is not a sport. Thus, the idea that a sport (whether it enhances self defense or not) must be taught is false. IMHO it does not behoove the military to teach h2h much more than an intermediate level.

That being said I believe most USMC infantry guys are full contact and would enjoy and should seek additional martial arts training.

 

[JerseyTrash]

I just got out of the Marines. The martial arts program BLOWS. You don't ever train at all. I fucking hated it.

 

[JRT6]

I'm getting some Marines in training who have recently got out and ones that were in long enough had about a good of a base as one can expect for a skill that is not frequently called for on the battle field. They seemed to be very one steppish in that their attacks and responses were set piece but that is actually a valuable way to react. Hick's Law is quite accurate in that fight or flight reactions have to be relavant to the stessor and practiced otherwise each response option doubles a persons' reaction time to a threat. Marines don't do H2H frequently therefore them having limited repsonses drilled into them makes certain that a repsonse of some kind will come in the fastest manner possible in the face of a life or death stressor.

AND the military is a big place where people will have all kinds of different levels of exposure to training. To generalize that the military dosen't have a good effective H2H program because a few guys didn't get exposed to it or just plain suck isn't an accurate assessment.

 

[Technomad]

The way I understood combatives is not that it will actually help you in combat. I have never, ever , even heard of anyone being in a situation in combat where h2h was needed.

The reason the army loves their combatives is that it develops that 'aggressive killer instinct'. It's the same reason privates do bayonet training and yell "kill" all the time. Also, combatives is a relativly safe way to stay in shape without any special equitment, and you can do it with a large group of people. Finally, it teaches soilders some basic principles of combat in general. Like the value of practice, and training, to never underestimate an opponent, etc.

 

[trapperdrew]

I'm getting some Marines in training who have recently got out and ones that were in long enough had about a good of a base as one can expect for a skill that is not frequently called for on the battle field. They seemed to be very one steppish in that their attacks and responses were set piece but that is actually a valuable way to react. Hick's Law is quite accurate in that fight or flight reactions have to be relavant to the stessor and practiced otherwise each response option doubles a persons' reaction time to a threat. Marines don't do H2H frequently therefore them having limited repsonses drilled into them makes certain that a repsonse of some kind will come in the fastest manner possible in the face of a life or death stressor.

AND the military is a big place where people will have all kinds of different levels of exposure to training. To generalize that the military dosen't have a good effective H2H program because a few guys didn't get exposed to it or just plain suck isn't an accurate assessment.

Well said. While I was in Okinawa I trained MUCH more than when I was stateside. Just more time and focus on MCMAP. It's a good system, but yes, somewhat limited.