Modern Army Combatives (hand-to-hand, BJJ, Muay-thai etc) -VIDEO-

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by judogido, May 15, 2008.

  1. judogido

    judogido Aussie!, Aussie!, Aussie! ...

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    Just for you interested people. They do show quite a bit of grappling...

    <embed id="VideoPlayback" style="width:400px;height:326px" flashvars="" src="http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docid=1462151077277855734&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash"> </embed>
     
  2. NinjaKilla187

    NinjaKilla187 Blue Belt

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    Whats the link? I can't see see the imbedded vid from behind the firewall... Is this the promo Matt Larson did that's on the MACP website?
     
  3. jwalk2515

    jwalk2515 White Belt

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    give a link, I am not behind a firewall and i still can't see it
     
  4. LordarshynBJJ

    LordarshynBJJ Blue Belt

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    MAC sucks.

    Sorry guys, I meet soldiers that just came out of training all the time...and they suck.

    I mean, i'm sure with enough training in it you'd be a badass, but all these guys come out of it thinking they are fighting gods..and they aren't. Makes me glad they give them rifles before sending them over seas. :p
     
  5. SMillard

    SMillard Red Belt

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    The training time for MAC is very short. When I was in the army back in the late 80's during basic training our H2H training was one day and involved stupid shit like telling us to choke people with our boot strings. I think the MAC is a vast improvement, but they are not going to be producing high white belt or blue belt level grapplers. The purpose is the give a basic understanding and build confidence. The training time these guys receive from the army in one years time is probably about as much as an average BJJ student gets in a couple of months.

    One good thing about MAC is that it does encourage soldiers to seek out additional training at private clubs.

    On the military channel recently they had a three part miniseries called Top Army Fighter which was basically an inservice tournament at various weight classes that was pretty standard mma rules except no slams or elbows. The quality wasn't top level by any means but they did seem competent.
     
  6. LordarshynBJJ

    LordarshynBJJ Blue Belt

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    Marines do that too I think..Infact I think they have a big tournament where marines, army, air force, navy ETC all get together and have an MMA like tournament.

    It's a great idea. It encourages them to train, but really, you want competent soldiers? TRAIN THEM, don't encourage them to train...FUCKING TRAIN THEM.

    The time spent training MAC or Marine martial arts(whatever they call it these days) isn't close to enough, in my opinion.

    I know a white belt, and not only was he a white belt, but he SUCKED...and you know what he did for the army? he TAUGHT combatives. That's who we have training out soldiers?
     
  7. SMillard

    SMillard Red Belt

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    I understand what you are saying but there is the reality of time constraints. Army basic training is 10 weeks and Marines is 13 weeks I think. The main difference is every Marine is trained to be a rifleman/infantry.

    You need to train people in first aid, marksmanship, familiarization with other weapon systems, land navigation, radio procedures, small unit tactics.....ect. The time for H2H training is pretty minimal maybe a week in basic if you are lucky. The Marine program MMAP is very similar but I personally don't think it's as good as the premise of the army program. You have to understand that the military training system is designed to train people in a manner and speed that very stupid people can learn to be soldiers/marines/sailors/airmen so there is only so much time.

    Now when soldiers get to units they have jobs to do, maintain equipment, do paperwork, clean crap and such. There is very little duty time that can be dedicated to H2H training. In fact it is supposed to be a supplement to the morning physical training which is done normally three times a week.

    Finally two last points, one if our soldiers are stuck in hand to hand situations, shit has gone bad really quick. Remember this is going to be used after the options of airstrike/artillery, direct fire weapons like machine guns, personal rifle and grenades, and finally bayonet fixed rifle are either exhausted or not viable. That is a very rare situation.

    The second point is despite everything the military really doesn't want a bunch of bad asses running around kicking the crap out of civilians when they go on leave and get drunk.

    As far as the guy that taught combatives that sucked, well he was probably the dumb bastard that volunteered, and you know what they say about volunteering in the military. Skill had little or nothing to do with it.
     
  8. SMillard

    SMillard Red Belt

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    double
     
  9. green_machine

    green_machine Orange Belt

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    From what I gather, I feel like they teach a bunch of basic techniques that might apply to a self-defense or fight situation, but probably don't emphasize a whole lot of correct and sharp fundamentals. I've only rolled with one guy that did this program and he sucked, but he talked as if he believed he was a good grappler. He could armbar, kimura, americana, yet couldn't pass the guard, was getting swept with little effort, couldn't get out of side control, etc.
     
  10. SMillard

    SMillard Red Belt

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    There are two problems with the system as far as the attitudes of the military personnel. First off when you are taught or told something, it is told to you as though it was from god almighty himself and is the end all be all.

    So of course these guys think they are great grapplers........Uncle Sam told them they were if they did what he taught them. Again it's a confidence builder, not necessarily a program to have a bunch of Gracie clones running around choking and snapping limbs.

    The other problem is two fold, one they are taught in a very offensive manner, very little in regard to defensive grappling except maybe a sprawl, upa to recover from being mounted and such. The other is they get very little free rolling, it is almost all static drills. This is mostly the fault of the unit level commanders who have probably not been completely sold on the program and just implement the minimum training time for it. That is why it's great that clubs and schools are popping up around military bases and these guys can train themselves.

    Remember how you were when you learned all the drills when you first started out and probably thought you were going to be able to handle yourself and when live rolling came you had to take a big bite out of the shit sandwich that is reality.
     
  11. Mohawk79

    Mohawk79 Orange Belt

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    I have a few friends that teach combatives, and your points make a lot of sense. It really is not effective for the military to teach personnel too much H2H combat techniques because of the rare instance that they would actually employ it in a combat situation. The only guys I know that are really good at H2H are some of the special forces guys that train on a regular basis.
     
  12. SFinclined

    SFinclined Purple Belt

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    MAC levels 1 & 2 are both like a week long, Level 3 is longer I think. They make you fight pancrase with slapping and a bunch of grappling.
     
  13. NinjaKilla187

    NinjaKilla187 Blue Belt

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    MACP is probably the most effecient combatives program going given the time constraints and level of overall talent involved.

    You can't make anybody a BJJ black belt and a MT badass in 80 hours of training. MACP offers a few HUGE advantages to all previous attempts.

    1) All, (or almost all) the techniques are proven to work, unlike some of the whacky TMA and ninja/commando shit we have taught in the past.
    2) Aliveness in training. After a few hours of training you can safely have guys rolling and actually using techniques against a fully resisting opponent.
    3) There is an established outlet for competition which inevitably results in higher quality training.
    4) Installation level training, and yes, this means white belts training white belts on basic techniques. The second you say you have to have a BJJ black, brown or even purple belt to teach MACP you will prevent hundreds of thousands of soldiers from getting instruction and hands on training. Soldier training HAS to be pushed down to the user level or it won't happen.
    5) Participation is mandatory. One of the huge flaws in the USMC program is people basically have to beg permission to do it and it just doesn't seem to happen much outside of grunt units.

    As Matt Larson has been known to say, "There's 500,000 students in my fight school" Not every one of them is going to be a super star but over time you are going to see the cream rise to the top of every fight promotion.
     
  14. judogido

    judogido Aussie!, Aussie!, Aussie! ...

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  15. lethalazn

    lethalazn Purple Belt

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    I noticed something ironic when I watched this youtube vid of MCMAP guys grappling: there were a lot of times when someone was getting sidemounted and PULLED the other guy into him leaving himself flat on his back

    Isn't being flat on your back worst in the battlefield than in a tourney???
     
  16. Blast D*

    Blast D* Banned Banned

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  17. kenban judan

    kenban judan orange belt, i think

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    i don't even know how to respond to that
     
  18. judogido

    judogido Aussie!, Aussie!, Aussie! ...

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    LMAO ...

    "Hey mate, Just wait-a-minnit while I take my shoelaces off so I can choke you"......
     
  19. pittelp

    pittelp Smokin Joe belt winner

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    Modern Army Combatives...

    Is a guide to help soldiers have some idea how to fight in modern times...

    Yes, you will have joes that think they are UFC material.
     
  20. SMillard

    SMillard Red Belt

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    you don't, you develop a dumbfounded stair and wait for the days training to end like I did.
     

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