MMA question for blues and above

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by Dedicado, May 15, 2008.

  1. Dedicado

    Dedicado Machetero

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    BJJ question for MMA fighting. I play the half guard when I am forced to my back in Gi and No Gi, but in MMA I noticed that that my old-school sweep set up leaves me open to strikes on my ribs and head from the guy on top. I ended up abandonding my sweep game and scrambled to my feet. My question is this, can anyone here recommend a way to control the underhook, while not getting hit to badly from the guy on top?
     
  2. Jaxx

    Jaxx Green Belt

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    Half guard aint so hot for MMA, if your going to go for anything just be prepared to take a few punches in the process.
     
  3. Deloitte

    Deloitte Blue Belt

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    I've noticed in MMA half guard is not an ideal position. You cannot hang around in that position for too long. You gotta grab the underhook immediately and sweep or try to get full guard. The best advice would be to keep your head as tight as possible to his body.
     
  4. Trickster***

    Trickster*** Banned Banned

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    I used to have this problem in MMA and my old coach showed me a good solution...oh wait blue belts and above? Im only a 4 stripe white in BJJ I guess I cant help you! Sorry!

    Seriously though...what these guys are saying is right if you are going to work from half you better have a nice, tight, high underhook, which will force him to wizzer and not be able to strike your ribs....you will probably take some shots in the face (if not elbows to the head) with the other hand. I dont see old school being the way to go in MMA. If you can get your hips out to do the old school why not get the dog fight position and either stand up or work for top position??
     
  5. Delbjj

    Delbjj Green Belt

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    It sucks for MMA. You better be alot better than the other guy if your going to play half guard without taking damage
     
  6. kimurense

    kimurense Brown Belt

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    full half guard is not optimal. half guard on MMA I use the knee in between me and my oponent. it is easier as you can control the oponents upper body a little bit better.. check joachim hansen's last fight, he uses it a lot (especially to get back on his feet)
     
  7. LordarshynBJJ

    LordarshynBJJ Blue Belt

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    You'd probably have more luck getting a nice deep underhook, while keeping your head close to their body, then scoot your hips out and go for the hook sweep.

    Seems like that might expose you a bit less. Old School looks like a bad idea in MMA unless you are REALLY fast with it.
     
  8. georgejjr

    georgejjr Black Belt

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    There are at least a couple of decent sweeps from half-guard in MMA - they involve trapping the inside leg with your outside leg while breaking your opponent's posture, and then shifting to go for his non-trapped leg and threatening a leg lock turn. But they're hard to pull off against a good opponent, and they're not something you're going to pick up from a forum, have your instructor show you (you're paying him to teach, make him teach).

    The most common tactic is to keep your opponent's posture broken and wait for him to either make a mistake, or for the referee to stand you up. It's not pretty, but the addition of strikes means that everything you do from half-guard in MMA has to keep his posture broken - it limits your options.
     
  9. Zankou

    Zankou Bringing peace and love Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    Couture actually prefers top half guard to side control in MMA, because the guy on the bottom has less mobility, and he can G&P at his pleasure.

    I've never seen anyone use half guard in MMA with good effect -- surviving is the best you can usually do.
     
  10. Calibur

    Calibur Jiu Jitsu Snob

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    But Eddie Bravo said that halfguard was great for MMA.:icon_cry2
     
  11. Samjj

    Samjj Blue Belt

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    eddie bravo is a very experienced MMA fighter.
     
  12. Amar

    Amar Feelin' Froggy? Leap

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    I think some people call that the Z guard, it's great because you can somewhat control the distance between you and the guy trying to beat your face in.
     
  13. wildcard_seven

    wildcard_seven Purple Belt

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    Are you guys KIDDING me? Have you ever seen this guy named "Antonio Rodriguo Nogueira". He's used half guard to good effect against a few bums like, oh, Josh Barnett, Werdum, and recently in this obscure match with Tim Sylvia.

    GTFO with this shit. Unreal.

    For the haters who say he just used his "chin", bullshit. In all the fights where he ever got jacked up in guard, and that was really only against Fedor, he was playing open guard when he took the punishment. Half guard is probably his safest and most high percentage position from bottom now.

    Like one guy said, use the knee to create space, like the Z guard, which Nogueira uses in a fashion very often. Also, there is this little known half guard technique called the "paw" that tends to help against strikes from the non-underhooked side.

    What a weird ass thread.
     
  14. Zankou

    Zankou Bringing peace and love Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    Actually Eddie Bravo says the halfguard is *not* great for MMA. He recommends rubber/butterfly guard for MMA.
     
  15. georgejjr

    georgejjr Black Belt

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    Big Nog is able to do a lot of things most folks can't. Someone asking for MMA advice from blues and above isn't likely to be at Big Nog's level. For that matter, Fedor does a great job throwing people with sasae tsurikomi ashi. Doesn't mean that its a good throw for beginners to work on.

    Sure, some people can make half-guard work for them. Some people can make throws like sasae tsurikomi ashi work for them in MMA too. Most can't, which is why you don't have every MMA school teaching them, especially to beginners.
     
  16. wildcard_seven

    wildcard_seven Purple Belt

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    I don't know exactly what he says in that quote or how he phrases it. But he does say that you can use half guard in MMA in "Mastering the Rubberguard", you just have to use the paw. He doesn't actually say paw, but he shows the position with a picture.
     
  17. wildcard_seven

    wildcard_seven Purple Belt

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    Another guy who has displayed half guard in MMA is Jeff Monson. He uses it mainly to go to dogfight or work for singles.
     
  18. wildcard_seven

    wildcard_seven Purple Belt

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    Another guy who has displayed half guard in MMA is Jeff Monson. He uses it mainly to go to dogfight or work for singles.
     
  19. Zankou

    Zankou Bringing peace and love Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    He says you need to use the paw to help block, but he also says you're going to get hit. It's unavoidable in the half guard. If you can take some hits, good for you, but ... you're really gonna get hit.

    BJ Penn's book on MMA has a good half guard section, and he says the same basic thing -- if you end up in half guard, you need to move very fast, with urgency, because if you sit there you're going to get hit.

    There are lots of guys who have been able to make successful moves from the bottom half guard in MMA, but not who actually try to end up there. I haven't watched big Nog's recent fights for awhile, so I suppose you may have somebody there. But, like it or not, big Nog is willing to take a beating that most fighters can't.
     
  20. wildcard_seven

    wildcard_seven Purple Belt

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    I'll concede to that. And his confidence in this fact is probably not a small factor in his decisions. In his last fight, Nog pulled half guard and I don't think he could have won any other way. I think the key is, as you said, a sense of urgency, you can't chill there. But one thing I'll add is, I don't think there is really any guard besides rubber that offers a high degree of safety from GnP. Take classic closed guard for example, with an overhook and a hand controlling the head, not many people can hold this position for long without a gi. And while you might take more shots from half where the guy has access to your head if he can negate the paw (note: if you underhook on his right side, he has to use his left, which considerably tones down damage in righties), I think you take much harder shots with a guy postured up in your guard. So all in all, I think the degree of safety between non-rubber guards is pretty close. Half gives access to more shots in certain situations, closed to harder if your opponent postures, you can play open if you think you've got a chin like Nog.
     

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