• Xenforo Cloud has scheduled an upgrade to XenForo version 2.2.16. This will take place on or shortly after the following date and time: Jul 05, 2024 at 05:00 PM (PT) There shouldn't be any downtime, as it's just a maintenance release. More info here

MMA has NOT evolved!

MikeMcMann

Banned
Banned
Joined
Aug 15, 2015
Messages
26,650
Reaction score
5
In any thread where someone brings up a top fighter from years back and how they would match up in a Prime V Prime against a top fighter today we invariably get a very reflexive reply that the fighter from years back would lose because the sports Evolved as if that and that alone would determine the outcome.

I am here to argue that the sport has not had any significant evolution and far more important is how good an athlete and how good a fighter that person was.

What has evolved is training as all fighters now are far better cross trained and there are less easy fights against one dimensional and part time fighters. That evolution I will concede but that was never an issue for the top guys V top guys. That is more an issue for the guys in the ranks.

This New Breed, sports evolved nonsense was first being spouted and adopted when the major HW's were split. The UFC had a crop of mostly new and younger HW's and Strikeforce had a stable of mostly older HW's whose prime years were either behind them or fading fast. The UFC wanted to glorify their New Breed by saying the Sports Evolved and all those older guys may have great resumes and name recognition but they could never compete with our new young guns. Many fans bought into that marketing spin and still parrot it today.

We now know after those HW divisions were merged that, that was BS and not only could that old guard compete but they quickly took over a major portion of the top ranks, even HW's who were considered well past their prime runs were still able to maintain at or near the top.

And I get it as invariably fans will rank 'what they watch and see today' and they find themselves vested in as they cheer for one guy over the other, over stories they have heard about older fighters or in watching them in re-runs. Its not the same when it comes to how vested you are in a fighter. But that does not make what you see today necessarily better than what happened yesterday. You need to step back from that bias as there is no new breed and the sport has not evolved yet. Training has.

Edit addition:

i guess i should be more clear as i already stated that the training has evolved. The money has also evolved which is drawing in more athletes who can train and work full time in MMA where that was not possible prior. And I stated that has strengthened the tiers below the elite fighters pretty significantly.

But WHAT I AM REFERRING TO is that the level of athletes at the top, who have mostly always had good access to cross training have not evolved in such a way that you can say it would be no contest between a top star or yesteryear and a top star today.


(and no I am not going back to the earliest days of the UFC when most of the athletes were hand picked to fight for a reason)
 
Last edited:
Fighters like Lesnar, Ronda and Conor made the sport mainstream. But there have not been much improvement in talent. In fact some divisions are more stale now.
 
i won't refute you. who the fuck am i, right? i don't fight, i barely train.

but Chael does below. it's only the first few minutes - once he gets to Randy should be considered GOAT you've heard his points. and like him or dislike him (i am closer to the dislike side of that spectrum), he is knowledgeable on all subjects fighting. that is undeniable.

so can you listen to that and then rebut him, point by point? thanks. i look forward to reading what you have to say.

 
And i'm representing Canada in this argument so if your coming on, come on!

 
Yes it has. In multiple aspects and facettes.

It's a very young sport, of course it evolves.
Ask any fighter on the roster and he tells you the same thing. You think UFC 1 was or looked the same as UFC 200? That's laughable.
 
In any thread where someone brings up a top fighter from years back and how they would match up in a Prime V Prime against a top fighter today we invariably get a very reflexive reply that the fighter from years back would lose because the sports Evolved as if that and that alone would determine the outcome.

I am here to argue that the sport has not had any significant evolution and far more important is how good an athlete and how good a fighter that person was.

What has evolved is training as all fighters now are far better cross trained and there are less easy fights against one dimensional and part time fighters. That evolution I will concede but that was never an issue for the top guys V top guys. That is more an issue for the guys in the ranks.

This New Breed, sports evolved nonsense was first being spouted and adopted when the major HW's were split. The UFC had a crop of mostly new and younger HW's and Strikeforce had a stable of mostly older HW's whose prime years were either behind them or fading fast. The UFC wanted to glorify their New Breed by saying the Sports Evolved and all those older guys may have great resumes and name recognition but they could never compete with our new young guns. Many fans bought into that marketing spin and still parrot it today.

We now know after those HW divisions were merged that, that was BS and not only could that old guard compete but they quickly took over a major portion of the top ranks, even HW's who were considered well past their prime runs were still able to maintain at or near the top.

And I get it as invariably fans will rank 'what they watch and see today' and they find themselves vested in as they cheer for one guy over the other, over stories they have heard about older fighters or in watching them in re-runs. Its not the same when it comes to how vested you are in a fighter. But that does not make what you see today necessarily better than what happened yesterday. You need to step back from that bias as there is no new breed and the sport has not evolved yet. Training has.

I want to read it, the topic is interesting, but I simply cannot.
My attention span is not good enough for this. It's even not because it's long. It's the style.

Can you re-design it all please?
 
The Heavyweight division is a complete shit-show. It has not evolved at all aside from Stipe and healthy Cain.

The rest of MMA, I think it has evolved but I also think it's just some of the top guys that are evolved. Even at LHW, where is this evolution aside from DC, Gus, Jones and maybe Rumble? Everyone else sucks.
 
It is evolved at the elite level, specifically with striking

All the elite strikers in 2000-2010 are sloppy brawlers at best for current day
 
If you don't think the sport has evolved you aren't paying close enough attention.


Takedown defense has evolved light years. Ability to get up has evolved.

Sub defense has evolved and striking technique has evolved. Low calf kicks were not a popular technique ten years ago.

The game is constantly changing and evolving. It will never change at the same rate as the early years due to the learning curve, but it is definitely evolving.
 
There was a period of evolution. Which brought the sport from specialists to well rounded MMA fighters. This happened during the 2000’s. But since, the evolution has happened in training and gameplanning.

Faber —-> Aldo
Hughes —-> GSP
Coleman —-> Fedor
Chuck —-> Jones
Gomi ——> BJ
 
Prime Art Jimmerson Vs Yoel Romero would be a dream match up.
tumblr_m9rzk9L7sH1r6zxd3o1_500.jpg
 
Also, if we're talking about "MMA" as a whole there's:

USADA, mainstreamization of the sport, production, fighter pay, more MMA promoters than ever, more MMA fighters than ever, more MMA fans than ever, international expansion of MMA, new rules, etc.


All this is part of the evolution of MMA.
 
It is evolved at the elite level, specifically with striking

All the elite strikers in 2000-2010 are sloppy brawlers at best for current day
Anderson Silva
Crocop
Overeem
Shogun
Bj
GSP
Alves
Vitor

And many others. You are fake news.
 
It is evolved at the elite level, specifically with striking

All the elite strikers in 2000-2010 are sloppy brawlers at best for current day
Idk man, lots of spinning shit plus wmma skill levels dragging everything down with them but really... is Woodley that badass of a striker? Whitaker? DC? Miocic?
 
HW and LHW are worse than ever.

The lighter weight classes have evolved in skill and depth but not HW and LHW. Those divisions have regressed in talent
 
Yep same rule set, weight classes, round lengths, regulations, and pay structure as the beginning. MMA hasn't evolved one bit.
 
Back
Top