Throwback Mirko Crocop vs Wanderlei Silva

[AstralPanda]

Is that from the first fight?

What a lot of people seem to forget is the first fight between these guys at Pride 20 when CC first went to MMA, which was a draw because of the special rules, but would have been a clear win by Wandy. The first fight in hindsight showed how much CC had improved; he did not have the ability to dominate Wandy like he did in the second fight before he improved his MMA game.

showed how much wand fell off as well

Wand was a lot more technical in the first fight.

I think he also lost a lot of the fearless, warrior spirit type energy that made everyone fall in love with his style and mentality to begin with.

Wand had one of the scarier auras I've seen in a fighter in those days and he fought like it.

Around the 2nd crocop fight on, he gave off the energy of a scared dog. Still dangerous, but he lost the confidence that made him who he was.

 

[HHJ]

I think Wanderlei outweighed Cro Cop to be fair.

Yeah but that just made Wanderlei slower and Mirko faster. Mirko naturally bigger and faster

 

[Bullitt68]

maybe true, but still lost to the fighter he wanted to beat the most, fedor.

Two things about the OWGP irk me. First and foremost, it's a shame that Fedor busted his hand (again) and couldn't be a part of it. But at least Wanderlei was his replacement and Cro Cop got to put a proper beating on Wanderlei to clarify for the record books that he was capable of kicking his ass. The other thing was that Barnett beat Nogueira in the semis. In fairness to Barnett, I did think that he beat Nogueira, I think that the right decision was made giving him that victory. But the second they announced the decision, I was bummed. Cro Cop was so clearly better than Barnett, the finals were academic. I desperately wanted Cro Cop to get to avenge that loss to Nogueira. And with how much Nog had physically slowed down from 2003 to 2006 - he was always fast and light on his feet, but by 2006, he'd packed on like 15 extra pounds and he was noticeably slower - there's no doubt in my mind that Cro Cop would've annihilated him that night. To have never notched a win over either Fedor or Nogueira is a tough pill for me to swallow as a Cro Cop fan.

It's also unfortunate how the end of PRIDE shook out. There was talk of a Fedor/Cro Cop rematch for Shockwave 2006, but Cro Cop had waited a year and fought through the entire OWGP before getting surgery on his foot (he chipped a bone in his ankle in 2005, hence the shoes that he wore against Mark Hunt at Shockwave 2005 and hence his only throwing one kick with his left leg before the final night of the tournament), and he wanted to finally rest and recover after winning the tournament. Then the UFC made the move to buy PRIDE, Cro Cop signed with the UFC, Dana and the Russians were oil and water, and they never had that rematch.

So many "What ifs?" in MMA history. But Cro Cop avenging his loss to Nogueira was so close to being a reality. That one personally stings me more. Fedor's the GOAT. Losing to him is fine. But Cro Cop could've and should've beaten Nogueira in 2003 and absolutely would've beat him in a rematch, but he never got the chance to put a W on his record next to Nog's name.

 

[HHJ]

I was bummed. Cro Cop was so clearly better than Barnett, the finals were academic

I didnt feel this way. I felt like Barnett just wasnt in the best shape,in the two other Crocop fights. He clearly knew how to counter the LHK,he could bum rush and catch the leg and get the takedown like he did in the 2nd fight. Sure,seeing Mirko fight Nog again would be more interesting,but I still was hyped for that fight. Seeing Barnett courageously come out battered for that final fight was epic.

 

[Bullitt68]

I didnt feel this way. I felt like Barnett just wasnt in the best shape,in the two other Crocop fights. He clearly knew how to counter the LHK,he could bum rush and catch the leg and get the takedown like he did in the 2nd fight. Sure,seeing Mirko fight Nog again would be more interesting,but I still was hyped for that fight. Seeing Barnett courageously come out battered for that final fight was epic.

Fair enough. I just knew that not only was Cro Cop a stylistic nightmare for Barnett, but he fucking dominated Barnett in the grappling match that was their shitty PRIDE 30 fight. No way Barnett would have anything for a fired up Cro Cop when he had nothing for a post-Fedor zombie Cro Cop just going through the motions. Then again, I was certain after the Wanderlei destruction that Cro Cop would decimate any human on Earth. I just wanted it to be Nog more than Barnett. But either way, I knew that Cro Cop was going to win that night.

 

[HHJ]

Fair enough. I just knew that not only was Cro Cop a stylistic nightmare for Barnett, but he fucking dominated Barnett in the grappling match that was their shitty PRIDE 30 fight. No way Barnett would have anything for a fired up Cro Cop when he had nothing for a post-Fedor zombie Cro Cop just going through the motions. Then again, I was certain after the Wanderlei destruction that Cro Cop would decimate any human on Earth. I just wanted it to be Nog more than Barnett. But either way, I knew that Cro Cop was going to win that night.

BTW

I am attending a seminar with Josh Barnett this month!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Lee_]

I think Wanderlei outweighed Cro Cop to be fair.

Wandy was puffed up to fight in the open weight GP against HWs. He isn't actually as big as CC.

 

[Bullitt68]

Wandy was puffed up to fight in the open weight GP against HWs. He isn't actually as big as CC.

He also doesn't dwarf him. In their first fight, Cro Cop was 222 (compared to 221 in their second fight) and Wand was 215 (compared to 225 in their second fight). Their size difference is roughly the same as the size difference between Fedor and Cro Cop just going the other way.

 

[HHJ]

He also doesn't dwarf him. In their first fight, Cro Cop was 222 (compared to 221 in their second fight) and Wand was 215 (compared to 225 in their second fight). Their size difference is roughly the same as the size difference between Fedor and Cro Cop just going the other way.

I dont think Wanderlei at that size is optimal for him at all. He looked slow as fuck. Him bein slower,and Mirko cutting to be faster,he had no chance.

 

[AstralPanda]

Fair enough. I just knew that not only was Cro Cop a stylistic nightmare for Barnett, but he fucking dominated Barnett in the grappling match that was their shitty PRIDE 30 fight. No way Barnett would have anything for a fired up Cro Cop when he had nothing for a post-Fedor zombie Cro Cop just going through the motions. Then again, I was certain after the Wanderlei destruction that Cro Cop would decimate any human on Earth. I just wanted it to be Nog more than Barnett. But either way, I knew that Cro Cop was going to win that night.

and that's why the Gonzaga headkick is still the biggest upset of all time

 

[Here's Johnny!]

On rewatch it was kind of bad...

 

[Bullitt68]

BTW

I am attending a seminar with Josh Barnett this month!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ha, cool. He's still pretty active on here and I know that he does the seminar circuit. What is it? A catch-wrestling seminar or a broader MMA thing? Either way, have fun with the Baby-Faced Assassin (always my preferred nickname for him, even now when he's gray ).

I dont think Wanderlei at that size is optimal for him at all. He looked slow as fuck. Him bein slower,and Mirko cutting to be faster,he had no chance.

Well, to be fair, the gameplan for Wanderlei seemed to be to take Cro Cop down. IIRC, he was working TDs before the fight and he shot in on Cro Cop right away. I'm assuming that he wanted the extra heft to be able to lock horns with the bigger guys. Plus, it's not like he was fighting underwater. He still opens winging those monster hooks with a ton of speed. Because Cro Cop was faster than Wanderlei - and just about everyone else except Fedor - doesn't mean that Wanderlei was crazy slow. Lastly, Cro Cop fucked him up real early and by the end of the 5-minute fight, Wanderlei was struggling because Cro Cop was pushing his shit in, not because he put on a little extra muscle.

and that's why the Gonzaga headkick is still the biggest upset of all time

That or Serra/GSP. In both cases, you have a known grappler putting down a superior striker with striking skills nobody knew they had. For me personally, it was Cro Cop/Gonzaga because, while anyone can get caught and Serra caught GSP, Cro Cop didn't just get caught, he got taken down, beat up, and then Cro Copped. I remember that night so vividly, easily my worst night as an MMA fan. Ken Shamrock and Cro Cop are my two all-time favorites - I know, I know - but by the time that I was getting into MMA, Ken was already past his prime, so while I hated seeing him lose, it wasn't shocking by any means. Seeing Cro Cop go down, and go down like that, to that guy, was literally unfathomable.

 

[HHJ]

Ha, cool. He's still pretty active on here and I know that he does the seminar circuit. What is it? A catch-wrestling seminar or a broader MMA thing? Either way, have fun with the Baby-Faced Assassin (always my preferred nickname for him, even now when he's gray ).

"No-Gi workshop" so probably catch

 

[AstralPanda]

Ha, cool. He's still pretty active on here and I know that he does the seminar circuit. What is it? A catch-wrestling seminar or a broader MMA thing? Either way, have fun with the Baby-Faced Assassin (always my preferred nickname for him, even now when he's gray ).



Well, to be fair, the gameplan for Wanderlei seemed to be to take Cro Cop down. IIRC, he was working TDs before the fight and he shot in on Cro Cop right away. I'm assuming that he wanted the extra heft to be able to lock horns with the bigger guys. Plus, it's not like he was fighting underwater. He still opens winging those monster hooks with a ton of speed. Because Cro Cop was faster than Wanderlei - and just about everyone else except Fedor - doesn't mean that Wanderlei was crazy slow. Lastly, Cro Cop fucked him up real early and by the end of the 5-minute fight, Wanderlei was struggling because Cro Cop was pushing his shit in, not because he put on a little extra muscle.



That or Serra/GSP. In both cases, you have a known grappler putting down a superior striker with striking skills nobody knew they had. For me personally, it was Cro Cop/Gonzaga because, while anyone can get caught and Serra caught GSP, Cro Cop didn't just get caught, he got taken down, beat up, and then Cro Copped. I remember that night so vividly, easily my worst night as an MMA fan. Ken Shamrock and Cro Cop are my two all-time favorites - I know, I know - but by the time that I was getting into MMA, Ken was already past his prime, so while I hated seeing him lose, it wasn't shocking by any means. Seeing Cro Cop go down, and go down like that, to that guy, was literally unfathomable.

I think it was just because crocop was at near mythical status for me at that time.

I still remember just sitting In silence for 10 minutes, shocked at what I just seen with a few friends.

Crocop being taken out by his own signature move was like straight out of a movie.


I got into MMA through pride. There was such an aura of superiority at that time, It was hard to conceive of pride losing to UFC fighters at all.

 

[KoreanZawmbie]

Legendary fight.

 

[HHJ]

I think it was just because crocop was at near mythical status for me at that time.

I still remember just sitting In silence for 10 minutes, shocked at what I just seen with a few friends.

Crocop being taken out by his own signature move was like straight out of a movie.


I got into MMA through pride. There was such an aura of superiority at that time, It was hard to conceive of pride losing to UFC fighters at all.

Sherdog spoiled this fight before that was a thing.

The fight aired on a delay for the US from Europe

Before this,they wouldnt spoil the results on the front page. For this fight they were like FUCK YOU HA HA.

 

[Royce's Gi]

Two things about the OWGP irk me. First and foremost, it's a shame that Fedor busted his hand (again) and couldn't be a part of it. But at least Wanderlei was his replacement and Cro Cop got to put a proper beating on Wanderlei to clarify for the record books that he was capable of kicking his ass. The other thing was that Barnett beat Nogueira in the semis. In fairness to Barnett, I did think that he beat Nogueira, I think that the right decision was made giving him that victory. But the second they announced the decision, I was bummed. Cro Cop was so clearly better than Barnett, the finals were academic. I desperately wanted Cro Cop to get to avenge that loss to Nogueira. And with how much Nog had physically slowed down from 2003 to 2006 - he was always fast and light on his feet, but by 2006, he'd packed on like 15 extra pounds and he was noticeably slower - there's no doubt in my mind that Cro Cop would've annihilated him that night. To have never notched a win over either Fedor or Nogueira is a tough pill for me to swallow as a Cro Cop fan.

It's also unfortunate how the end of PRIDE shook out. There was talk of a Fedor/Cro Cop rematch for Shockwave 2006, but Cro Cop had waited a year and fought through the entire OWGP before getting surgery on his foot (he chipped a bone in his ankle in 2005, hence the shoes that he wore against Mark Hunt at Shockwave 2005 and hence his only throwing one kick with his left leg before the final night of the tournament), and he wanted to finally rest and recover after winning the tournament. Then the UFC made the move to buy PRIDE, Cro Cop signed with the UFC, Dana and the Russians were oil and water, and they never had that rematch.

So many "What ifs?" in MMA history. But Cro Cop avenging his loss to Nogueira was so close to being a reality. That one personally stings me more. Fedor's the GOAT. Losing to him is fine. But Cro Cop could've and should've beaten Nogueira in 2003 and absolutely would've beat him in a rematch, but he never got the chance to put a W on his record next to Nog's name.

I wish Pride would have lasted 1-2 more years before the Yak was exposed, then we'd prolly see CC Nog rematch, CC Fedor rematch etc

 

[AstralPanda]

Sherdog spoiled this fight before that was a thing.

The fight aired on a delay for the US from Europe

Before this,they wouldnt spoil the results on the front page. For this fight they were like FUCK YOU HA HA.

Yeah I remember that

There was a few fights they aired "live" on spike but it was delayed.

Thankfully I didn't get spoiled. It would've ruined the most shook moment I've ever experienced in mma.. lol

 

[OLD RED]

Wand should have taken a year off after this loss. Instead he fought Hendo 4 months later. Got brutally knocked out in that fight and was never the same again after.

 

[Bullitt68]

Sherdog spoiled this fight before that was a thing.

The fight aired on a delay for the US from Europe

Before this,they wouldnt spoil the results on the front page. For this fight they were like FUCK YOU HA HA.

Haha, I remember those days. As an American, I knew: When PRIDE has an event, just don't fucking look at the forums. It was so hard for me, as I literally lived on here in the mid-2000s, but Sherdog has always been keen to provide up-to-the-minute info on the front page. I never had any events spoiled, but the night of the OWGP finals, knowing that the event had happened and that I could check to see what happened to Cro Cop was so tempting, and I did break and read a little of what someone had posted recapping the event, and after a little into the first vague sentence along the lines of "dreams realized and hopes crushed" I couldn't read anymore and closed out of the forums. I also had friends over that night so it was easier to be distracted than if I'd been by myself. But it was always so fucking tempting to cut out the anxious waiting for the American PPVs and to just look up the results

I wish Pride would have lasted 1-2 more years before the Yak was exposed, then we'd prolly see CC Nog rematch, CC Fedor rematch etc

This is like fantasy casting old movies. It can really tie your brain into knots if you play these mind games. You're right, though, if PRIDE had continued a little longer, we may well have gotten some bad ass rematches. Cro Cop/Fedor II would've been more likely than Cro Cop/Nog II. Even when they both ended up in the UFC, Cro Cop and Nog never crossed paths a second time. It's really crazy that they never fought again.