Minotauro & Fedor...

[gono btw]

A few thoughts...

Always thought that the fights between these 2 HW GOATS were indeed the tie-breaker to determine who the HW GOAT was.

But...No longer so sure...

Was rooting for Mino at that time, was stunned to see Fedor, with his unorthodox boxing, negating Nog´s more traditional boxing stance...

Fedor won decisively, and I acknowledged his superiority.

Still, recently, after re-watching their early runs, their very 1st fights, I now tend to consider that this tie-breaker might not be such a decisive one when it comes to assessing their careers as a whole...

I´m slowly coming to the conclusion that:

1- Mino might be ahead of Fedor in the HW GOAT list.

but:

2- Fedor should be ahead of Mino in the P4P GOAT list, since he was realistically not a HW.


Still, Hespect to the 2 fan bases....

 

[Liquid Smoke]

Tie breaker.

 

[Gambit MMA]

Mirko was better then Nog

 

[gono btw]

Mirko was better then Nog

Here talking about careers as a whole, not who was better than who.

 

[TheGZA]

Mirko was better then Nog

 

[Gambit MMA]

Here talking about careers as a whole, not who was better than who.

Fedor had the better career and it’s not close . Nog is clear number 2

 

[gono btw]

Fedor had the better career and it’s not close . Nog is clear number 2

It´s a respectable opinion.

But you´re wrong, it is close.

 

[Mixfight]

Mirko was better then Nog

Bold post. Mayyybe arguable at best but I respect your balls chico.

 

[Mixfight]

If Fedor never existed Nog would have been like 33-2 with no unavenged losses and wins over Mirko,Werdum,Barnett, Sergei,Coleman, Hendo, Herring, Sapp, Ricco, Schilt, Volk Han. Thats an insane run in the HW division and could be considered GOAT worthy if he retired at that point.

Minotauro is an absolute all time GREAT. But thats if Fedor never existed. Because Fedor ended up beating Nog down badly on two different nights solidifying his true superiority and I say that with no dishespect to the legendary Minotauro.

 

[lukeuidswords]

Nog has the better resume, unquestionable, but he was never dominant or the best in the world for years and years like Fedor was, and Fedor whupped him twice when they were both at their peaks

It's hard to rank Nog over Fedor all-time when at their time Fedor was so much better, but Nog is a solid and secure #2

 

[Pakman]

It´s a respectable opinion.

But you´re wrong, it is close.

nah, you're def wrong. But Nog is def #2

 

[Okajima]

nah, you're def wrong. But Nog is def #2

 

[crofighter]

I dont like it when i see people say: "if there was no Fedor, Nog would be the HW GOAT".......thats delusional........why?

Because then Mirko and Nog would have faced each other a cuople of times and Mirko would murk him every time after their first fight, after he developed his ground game....

 

[gono btw]

I dont like it when i see people say: "if there was no Fedor, Nog would be the HW GOAT".......thats delusional........why?

Because then Mirko and Nog would have faced each other a cuople of times and Mirko would murk him every time after their first fight, after he developed his ground game....

It´s about career as a whole, not who´s better than who

 

[gono btw]

nah, you're def wrong. But Nog is def #2

If you dont take time to rewatch from the very beginning, you wont potentially change your mind as I did.

 

[Mixfight]

Because then Mirko and Nog would have faced each other a cuople of times and Mirko would murk him every time after their first fight, after he developed his ground game....

you dont know this for sure.... that is just speculation.

 

[Stevanchez]

FEDOR EMELIANENKO
36-5(1NC)[27 Finishes]
27 Fight Win Streak
5(4 HW) Top 11-15 Wins
5 Top 6-10 Wins
9(8 HW) Top 5 Wins
4(3 HW) Top 10 P4P Wins
19-4 vs. Top 15 Opp. (17-3 vs. HW)
4-0 vs. #1 HW/#1 Contender
18-1 as #1 HW
7-0 in #1 HW Championship Fights
6 Championship Defenses
2660 Days as #1 HW
2660 Days as Top 5 P4P Fighter

Spoiler: NOTABLE WINS

Arlovski, Arona, Coleman 2x, Filipovic, Fujita, Goodridge, Herring, Hunt, Ishii, Kohsaka, Lindland, Monson, Nogueira 2x, Ogawa, Randleman, Rizzo, Rogers, Schilt, Sobral, Sylvia

Spoiler: RANKED WINS & LOSSES

Ranked Wins:
Arona #12 LHW (2-0) = UD
Sobral #8 HW (19-2) = UD
Schilts #7 HW (22-10-1) = UD
Herring #3 HW (20-7) = TKO RD1
Nogueira #1 HW/#1 P4P (19-1-1) = UD
Fujita #10 HW (9-3) = SUB RD1
Goodridge #14 HW (17-13-1) = TKO RD1
Coleman #8 HW (13-5) = SUB RD1
Randleman #7 HW (15-8) = SUB RD1
Ogawa #15 HW (7-0) = SUB RD1
Nogueira #2 HW/#2 P4P (24-2-1(1NC)) = UD
Kohsaka #14 HW (26-15-2) = TKO RD1
Filipovic #2 HW/#5 P4P (16-2-2) = UD
Coleman #12 HW (15-7) = SUB RD2
Hunt #5 HW (5-2) = SUB RD1
Lindland #2 MW/#9 P4P (20-4) = SUB RD1
Sylvia #4 HW (24-4) = SUB RD1
Arlovski #2 HW (15-5) = KO RD1
Rogers #5 HW (10-0) = KO RD2

Losses:
Kohsaka #8 HW (21-10-2) = TKO RD1
Werdum #9 HW (13-4-1) = SUB RD1
Silva #10 HW (15-2) = TKO RD2
Henderson #7 LHW (27-8) = KO RD1
Mitrione #NR HW(11-5) = KO RD1

ANTONIO RODRIGO NOGUEIRA
34-10-1(1 NC)[24 Finishes]
13 Fight Win Streak
1 Top 11-15 Wins
8(7 HW) Top 6-10 Wins
7(6 HW) Top 5 Wins
2 Top 10 P4P Wins
16-9-1 vs. Top 15 Opp. (14-9-1 vs. HW)
1-1 vs. #1 HW/#1 Contender
8-1 as #1 HW
2-2 in #1 HW Championship Fights
0 Championship Defenses
751 Days as #1 HW
1737 Days as Top 5 P4P Fighter(STK=1407)

Spoiler: NOTABLE WINS

Barnett, Coleman, Couture, Filipovic, Goodridge, Han, Herring 3x, Henderson, Horn, Inoue, Kharitonov, Kikuta, Kochkine, V. Overeem 2x, Rodriguez, Sapp, Schaub, Schilt, Sylvia, Tamura 2x, Werdum

Spoiler: RANKED WINS & LOSSES

Ranked Wins:
Tamura #5 LHW (23-5-3) = SUB RD2
V. Overeem #3 HW/#10 P4P (19-9) = SUB RD1
Goodridge #11 HW (13-12) = SUB RD1
Coleman #2 HW/#5 P4P (12-4) = SUB RD1
Herring #4 HW (18-6) = UD
Schilt #9 HW (22-11-1) = SUB RD1
Henderson #7 LHW (12-2) = SUB RD3
Rodriguez #6 HW (14-2) = UD
Filipovic #5 HW (7-0-2) = SUB RD2
Herring #9 HW (24-10) = SUB RD2
Sergei #10 HW (9-0) = UD
Werdum #10 HW (8-1-1) = UD
Barnett #3 HW (23-4) = UD
Sylvia #4 HW (24-3) = SUB RD3
Couture #6 HW (16-9) = UD
Schaub #10 HW (8-1) = KO RD1

Losses:
Henderson #8 HW (7-0) = SD
Fedor #4 HW (12-1) = UD
Fedor #1 HW/#1 P4P (21-1(1NC)) = UD
Barnett #3 HW/#8 P4P (21-3) = SD
Mir #11 HW (11-3) = TKO RD2
Velasquez #8 HW (7-0) = KO RD1
Mir #7 HW (15-5) = SUB RD1
Werdum #3 HW (17-5-1) = SUB RD2
Nelson #14 HW (19-9) = KO RD1
Struve #NR HW (25-7) =UD

When you just look at notable wins, it is close with Nogueira probably, ever so slightly, edging Fedor. But in nearly every other "greatness" category: overall record, record against top opponents, top 15 wins, top 5 wins, #1/#2 HW wins, P4P wins, #1 HW reign, P4P reign, championship defenses, and, of course, head-to-head, Fedor's resume is better.

Nogueira is criminally underappreciated though. IMO, he is easily the #2 GHWOAT and a top 5-10 GOAT(I personally put him #5, behind GSP, Fedor, Silva, and Jones).

 

[gono btw]

FEDOR EMELIANENKO
36-5(1NC)[27 Finishes]
27 Fight Win Streak
5(4 HW) Top 11-15 Wins
5 Top 6-10 Wins
9(8 HW) Top 5 Wins
4(3 HW) Top 10 P4P Wins
19-4 vs. Top 15 Opp. (17-3 vs. HW)
4-0 vs. #1 HW/#1 Contender
18-1 as #1 HW
7-0 in #1 HW Championship Fights
6 Championship Defenses
2660 Days as #1 HW
2660 Days as Top 5 P4P Fighter

Spoiler: NOTABLE WINS

Arlovski, Arona, Coleman 2x, Filipovic, Fujita, Goodridge, Herring, Hunt, Ishii, Kohsaka, Lindland, Monson, Nogueira 2x, Ogawa, Randleman, Rizzo, Rogers, Schilt, Sobral, Sylvia

Spoiler: RANKED WINS & LOSSES

Ranked Wins:
Arona #12 LHW (2-0) = UD
Sobral #8 HW (19-2) = UD
Schilts #7 HW (22-10-1) = UD
Herring #3 HW (20-7) = TKO RD1
Nogueira #1 HW/#1 P4P (19-1-1) = UD
Fujita #10 HW (9-3) = SUB RD1
Goodridge #14 HW (17-13-1) = TKO RD1
Coleman #8 HW (13-5) = SUB RD1
Randleman #7 HW (15-8) = SUB RD1
Ogawa #15 HW (7-0) = SUB RD1
Nogueira #2 HW/#2 P4P (24-2-1(1NC)) = UD
Kohsaka #14 HW (26-15-2) = TKO RD1
Filipovic #2 HW/#5 P4P (16-2-2) = UD
Coleman #12 HW (15-7) = SUB RD2
Hunt #5 HW (5-2) = SUB RD1
Lindland #2 MW/#9 P4P (20-4) = SUB RD1
Sylvia #4 HW (24-4) = SUB RD1
Arlovski #2 HW (15-5) = KO RD1
Rogers #5 HW (10-0) = KO RD2

Losses:
Kohsaka #8 HW (21-10-2) = TKO RD1
Werdum #9 HW (13-4-1) = SUB RD1
Silva #10 HW (15-2) = TKO RD2
Henderson #7 LHW (27-8) = KO RD1
Mitrione #NR HW(11-5) = KO RD1

ANTONIO RODRIGO NOGUEIRA
34-10-1(1 NC)[24 Finishes]
13 Fight Win Streak
1 Top 11-15 Wins
8(7 HW) Top 6-10 Wins
7(6 HW) Top 5 Wins
2 Top 10 P4P Wins
16-9-1 vs. Top 15 Opp. (14-9-1 vs. HW)
1-1 vs. #1 HW/#1 Contender
8-1 as #1 HW
2-2 in #1 HW Championship Fights
0 Championship Defenses
751 Days as #1 HW
1737 Days as Top 5 P4P Fighter(STK=1407)

Spoiler: NOTABLE WINS

Barnett, Coleman, Couture, Filipovic, Goodridge, Herring 3x, Henderson, Horn, Inoue, Kharitonov, Kochkine, V. Overeem 2x, Rodriguez, Sapp, Schaub, Schilt, Sylvia, Tamura 2x, Werdum

Spoiler: RANKED WINS & LOSSES

Ranked Wins:
Tamura #5 LHW (23-5-3) = SUB RD2
V. Overeem #3 HW/#10 P4P (19-9) = SUB RD1
Goodridge #11 HW (13-12) = SUB RD1
Coleman #2 HW/#5 P4P (12-4) = SUB RD1
Herring #4 HW (18-6) = UD
Schilt #9 HW (22-11-1) = SUB RD1
Henderson #7 LHW (12-2) = SUB RD3
Rodriguez #6 HW (14-2) = UD
Filipovic #5 HW (7-0-2) = SUB RD2
Herring #9 HW (24-10) = SUB RD2
Sergei #10 HW (9-0) = UD
Werdum #10 HW (8-1-1) = UD
Barnett #3 HW (23-4) = UD
Sylvia #4 HW (24-3) = SUB RD3
Couture #6 HW (16-9) = UD
Schaub #10 HW (8-1) = KO RD1

Losses:
Henderson #8 HW (7-0) = SD
Fedor #4 HW (12-1) = UD
Fedor #1 HW/#1 P4P (21-1(1NC)) = UD
Barnett #3 HW/#8 P4P (21-3) = SD
Mir #11 HW (11-3) = TKO RD2
Velasquez #8 HW (7-0) = KO RD1
Mir #7 HW (15-5) = SUB RD1
Werdum #3 HW (17-5-1) = SUB RD2
Nelson #14 HW (19-9) = KO RD1
Struve #NR HW (25-7) =UD

When you just look at notable wins, it is close with Nogueira probably, ever so slightly, edging Fedor. But in nearly every other "greatness" category: overall record, record against top opponents, top 15 wins, top 5 wins, #1/#2 HW wins, P4P wins, #1 HW reign, P4P reign, championship defenses, and, of course, head-to-head, Fedor's resume is better.

Nogueira is criminally underappreciated though. IMO, he is easily the #2 GHWOAT and a top 5-10 GOAT(I personally put him #5, behind GSP, Fedor, Silva, and Jones).

Hmmm...Yeah.. These stats are limited... To have a clear view on the subject, I indeed recommend to watch all their fights from the very beginning, World Extreme Fighting & Rings.

Mino outgrappling some serious sambo fighters, RTT dudes, Mino almost schooling the legendary Han with a daring knee-bar...

These are the things I look up to.

 

[Stevanchez]

Hmmm...Yeah.. These stats are limited... To have a clear view on the subject, I indeed recommend to watch all their fights from the very beginning, World Extreme Fighting & Rings.

Mino outgrappling some serious sambo fighters, RTT dudes, Mino almost schooling the legendary Han with a daring knee-bar...

These are the things I look up to.

Yeah, I've seen their fights. I don't really understand what watching "game film" proves exactly. I know Nogueira is skilled, I also know Fedor proved, on 2 seperate occasions, to be better. And this wasn't just a "bad match up" thing. Fedor beat him everywhere; standing, clinch, and on the ground.

You are also not arguing who is better. You're arguing who is greater. So, how does watching fights prove Nogueira is greater? Furthermore, how does watching Nogueira run through his early opponents, prove anything more than watching Fedor dominate nearly every opponent that was put in front of him for 10 years?

 

[gono btw]

Yeah, I've seen their fights. I don't really understand what watching "game film" proves exactly. I know Nogueira is skilled, I also know Fedor proved, on 2 seperate occasions, to be better. And this wasn't just a "bad match up" thing. Fedor beat him everywhere; standing, clinch, and on the ground.

You are also not arguing who is better. You're arguing who is greater. So, how does watching fights prove Nogueira is greater? Furthermore, how does watching Nogueira run through his early opponents, prove anything more than watching Fedor dominate nearly every opponent that was put in front of him for 10 years?

Yeah, you didnt get the point.