Social Minimum Wage now at $20 an hour in California

CantCucktheTuck said:
yes...they fired 10k people in anticipation of the new minimum wage. Not that hard to understand
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More will be fired while prices for the goods will increase and full time hours will be cut...Minimum wage jobs are places you work when your 15 anyways...not in your 40's. But why stop at 20 why not 30 or 40...when is enough?
 
A little saying I came up with, "fools learn from their mistakes while wise men learn from the mistakes of others"... Or was that Kenny Florian?

Either way, let us use California as an example of how to prevent the destruction of our states and their economies by learning from their mistakes... And let us never allow anyone involved with decisions making in California to national responsibility!
 
Squarechoke said:
It's always funny to see Americans be horrified over the idea that workers should be paid wages they can live on. Granted I don't know the particular balance of wages to living costs in California but I do know it's quite expensive there so the wages are expected to be high. Now if someone could also fix that you always get bad service at restaurants etc in the US because the owner is guilt-tripping you to pay his workers on the side instead of him doing it like a competent business owner.
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What about workers who are too unskilled or inexperienced to offer value to an employer that meets or exceeds the cost of living? Are those people just supposed to not work and contribute? How can they improve the value they create if not given a chance?
 
djacobox372 said:
What about workers who are too unskilled or inexperienced to offer value to an employer that meets or exceeds the cost of living? Are those people just supposed to not work and contribute? How can they improve the value they create if not given a chance?
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If they offer that little value then the employer can do the job themselves. If they need someone else to do it they can pay market cost for their time.
 
Sinister said:
If they offer that little value then the employer can do the job themselves. If they need someone else to do it they can pay market cost for their time.
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You misread my post.

There are many people who's "market cost" for their time is not a living wage, because they are not capable of generating value to the market that equals a living wage.

For example: do you REALLY think that a 16yo high school dropout who's never had a job in their life can offer value to an employer enough for that employer to pay for their apartment, their food, their healthcare, their gas, their retirement?

What you're saying is that you don't have the skills or ability to generate enough value to pay for everything you need in life you are not worthy of working and contributing. That seems immoral. Everybody deserves to feel like their pitching in, even if they can't cover everything themselves.
 
djacobox372 said:
You misread my post.

There are many people who's "market cost" for their time is not a living wage, because they are not capable of generating value to the market that equals a living wage.

For example: do you REALLY think that a 16yo high school dropout who's never had a job in their life can offer value to an employer enough for that employer to pay for their apartment, their food, their healthcare, their gas, their retirement?

What you're saying is that you don't have the skills or ability to generate enough value to pay for everything you need in life you are not worthy of working and contributing. That seems immoral. Everybody deserves to feel like their pitching in, even if they can't cover everything themselves.
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I didnt misread your post. Everything you just said can be addressed by the quote of mine you're responding to. It's interesting that you make a capitalist argument while putting market cost in quotations, it suggests that perhaps you feel that WHO gets to determine market costs are the already wealthy. I mean, sounds like classism to me.

Okay let's take your random imaginary example and put it into actual real life anecdotes. I was ob my own at 16. My Mother and her husband got orders to go to Robbins AFB, I stayed in Virginia to finish HS. I stayed with my best friend and his Mother but she made it very clear to my Mother that she would not bear legal responsibility for me, and that I had to functionally be a roommate. I had to pay rent, pay for my own amenities outside of water and electricity, buy my own food, and handle my own affairs. I didnt drop out, but was not a HS graduate. Are you suggesting I deserved to NOT be able to pay my bills because I was under 18? I worked as a barback and a dishwasher and did the same labor as the ones who were adults. Suggesting I had "less value" seems immoral to me.

Two kids I train dropped out of HS to live on their own. One does drywall, I've posted about him before. He works, boxes, and goes to school. Suggesting he get paid less than adults when he is doing the same drywall work is silly. The other kid worked for In-N-Out, they paid well.

Everyone deserves to cover basic necessities you might DIE without, regardless of this premise of "value" that's often used to divide labor. If a business cannot pay the cost of someone's time and effort, they must go without the service or perhaps skip the avocado toast and Starbucks.
 
CantCucktheTuck said:
10,000 fired in the first month.

www.nationalreview.com

California’s Minimum Wage Wipes Out Thousands of Jobs | National Review

In their incessant efforts at pretending to help the poor, leftist politicians come back again and again to this issue.
www.nationalreview.com www.nationalreview.com
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They just poached a CEO because the business is doing so poorly.
Sinister said:
The end is nigh!! The unemployment apocalypse is finally happening due to the minimum wage increase!!

Fast food jobs increasing in California despite rising minimum wage | KiowaCountyPress.net

New data show fast food jobs have been on the upswing in the four months since the minimum wage in the sector increased.
kiowacountypress.net kiowacountypress.net
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California’s fast food workers got a $20 minimum wage, but is it working? It’s debatable​

Apparently, the data from the associations that actually run those businesses disagrees.
This month, Newsom declared that California fast food outlets had created 11,000 new jobs since the law was signed.

“What’s good for workers is good for business, and as California’s fast food industry continues booming every single month our workers are finally getting the pay they deserve,” Newsom said. “Despite those who pedaled lies about how this would doom the industry, California’s economy and workers are again proving them wrong.”

The industry didn’t agree.

“Every day you see headlines of restaurant closures, employee job losses and hours cut, and rising food prices for consumers,” the International Franchise Association said in a statement. “Local restaurant owners in California are already struggling to cope with the $20/hour wage, as the Fast Food Council considers additional wage increases. All the while, workers and consumers are feeling the pinch.”

Brooke Armour, president of the California Center for Jobs and the Economy, an adjunct of the Business Roundtable, criticized Newsom’s declaration as reflecting just one month of preliminary data and concluding, “Despite what some are saying, the data are clear: newly passed fast food minimum wage laws are leading to job losses in California.”

Christopher Thornberg, founding partner of Beacon Economics, also was critical in an analysis of the state’s economic trends. “California’s well-intended push to reduce income inequality via wage floors is beginning to have a significant negative impact on some of our most vulnerable workers — our youth, particularly those from lower income households,” Thornberg wrote.
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The California Business and Industrial Alliance just released data two months ago showing there was a loss of 10K jobs in the fast food sector. This was based on data collected by the Hoover Institution at Stanford. That was two months after the hike went into effect:

California fast food restaurants have cut 10,000 jobs thanks to state’s $20 minimum wage: trade group​


Yet Newsom's press release claims jobs have increased every single month this year. Nevertheless, this isn't some cooked up political "study", he's quoting the Bureau of Labor Statistics, which is a credible benchmark that offers consistency for comparison to past figures:
www.gov.ca.gov

After raising minimum wage, California has more fast food jobs than ever before | Governor of California

www.gov.ca.gov www.gov.ca.gov

Yet both can't be true. These are mutually exclusive claims. Well, that's because Newsom is intentionally misrepresenting government data to make it sounds like his policy hasn't been a failure.

Gov. Newsom’s Office Continues to Fib About Fast Food Job Losses – Claims Job Gains​

As Rebekah Paxton told us in June: “Newsom is stretching the truth to obscure the obvious: His fast food minimum wage hike has been a disaster. Thousands of workers have lost their jobs, hours are being slashed, and restaurants are closing at an alarming pace. The public isn’t fooled by Newsom’s statistical spin.”

This remains true today.

“He is using the non-adjusted data set,” Paxton said in an interview with the Globe Tuesday. “He went after other groups for using these last time around. But as of July, California is still down 3,000 fast food jobs since January 2024.”

There have been historical fast food job losses because of the increase to the $20 per hour minimum wage. And the governor and his PR staff don’t appear to care that people are losing their jobs – they’d rather gaslight minimum wage workers and claim fast food jobs are up.

“They are cherry picking different time periods here,” Paxton said, “and the administration’s statistics don’t hold up.”

Paxton said the September 2023 to July 2024 time period is a very big time period and arbitrary since September is when the bill was signed, but it wasn’t until January 2024 that we started seeing headlines about fast food companies starting layoffs and job cuts in preparation for the April 2024 effective date of the new minimum wage increase to $20 per hour.

Indeed – the Globe reported December 26, 2023, “Pizza Hut Fires Over 1,200 Drivers In California Before New $20 Minimum Wage Comes Into Effect.”

Even the March 2024 to July 2024 time period, Paxton said is missing about half of the job loss data, since the job cuts started in January 2024, ahead of the April 2024 implementation.

“The BLS statistics show that there have been fast food job losses in 6 of 7 months,” Paxton said. “The net numbers show January through today, 3,000 fast food jobs lost in California.”
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This is despite the upsurge in the economy, nationally, during this same time period, as inflation cooled, and we have seen one of the hottest job markets in many years leading Powell to just this week state it is probably time to cut the Fed's rates in response. So California losing 3K fast food workers would be most interesting in the context of averages across other states that didn't hike wages. I'm willing to bet those states, adjusted per capita, would have added many tens of thousands of fast food jobs over the same period.
 
djacobox372 said:
What about workers who are too unskilled or inexperienced to offer value to an employer that meets or exceeds the cost of living? Are those people just supposed to not work and contribute? How can they improve the value they create if not given a chance?
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If it's a job worth hiring someone for full time then it's worth a proper wage, and there's tons of jobs that don't require much knowledge/training beyond what you'll get when you're hired. It works in other rich nations and I don't believe that Americans are more useless than other people, regardless of what American restaurant owners claim. Here it works even without a law mandated minimum wage.

Then there's the unemployment activities that help people learn things that can be useful on the job market and that you generally have to do in order to receive unemployment benefits.
 
BROWNPRIDE said:
Get over it! You can always make coffee at home.
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And put the fast food workers further out of business? Then what, raise the minimum wage to $100/hour?
 
Madmick said:
They just poached a CEO because the business is doing so poorly.

California’s fast food workers got a $20 minimum wage, but is it working? It’s debatable​

Apparently, the data from the associations that actually run those businesses disagrees.


The California Business and Industrial Alliance just released data two months ago showing there was a loss of 10K jobs in the fast food sector. This was based on data collected by the Hoover Institution at Stanford. That was two months after the hike went into effect:

California fast food restaurants have cut 10,000 jobs thanks to state’s $20 minimum wage: trade group​


Yet Newsom's press release claims jobs have increased every single month this year. Nevertheless, this isn't some cooked up political "study", he's quoting the Bureau of Labor Statistics, which is a credible benchmark that offers consistency for comparison to past figures:
www.gov.ca.gov

After raising minimum wage, California has more fast food jobs than ever before | Governor of California

www.gov.ca.gov www.gov.ca.gov

Yet both can't be true. These are mutually exclusive claims. Well, that's because Newsom is intentionally misrepresenting government data to make it sounds like his policy hasn't been a failure.

Gov. Newsom’s Office Continues to Fib About Fast Food Job Losses – Claims Job Gains​



This is despite the upsurge in the economy, nationally, during this same time period, as inflation cooled, and we have seen one of the hottest job markets in many years leading Powell to just this week state it is probably time to cut the Fed's rates in response. So California losing 3K fast food workers would be most interesting in the context of averages across other states that didn't hike wages. I'm willing to bet those states, adjusted per capita, would have added many tens of thousands of fast food jobs over the same period.
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And @Sinister was never heard from again on that topic.
 
jefferz said:
They announced closings in Ohio and Texas at the same time. Were those because of California's $20 minimum wage hike as well?
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Funny thing is, Shake Shack already admitted straight up that the locations across 3 states are closing are *due to poor sales*.


I don't know which clowns at the NY Post invented the "alternative facts" to put in the company's mouth, but it is amusing that they just pretends that the closures in Ohio and Texas never happened.
 
BROWNPRIDE said:
So you made a post to cry about you spending an extra 50 cent?
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