Minimalist Approach: Trap DL, Press, Chin Ups

[Bodil]

Has anyone experienced something similar?

I find that the Deadlift / Squat / Bench ''big 3'' leaves so many holes. I know some powerlifters who pull 600 off the floor but can't do 10 BW chin ups. In terms of lifting for athletic purposes too, squatting and deadlift take a toll on the joints (for me at least).

I was thinking of something like

Monday: Trap DL (5 x 5)
Tues: OFF
Wed: Press (5 x 5)
Thurs: OFF
Fri: Weighted Chin Ups (5 x 5)
Sat: OFF
Sun: OFF

Current best on each lift is as follows
Trap DL: 8 x 495 (straps and belt)
Press: 10 x 135 (strict, down to upper chest)
Chin Ups: 5 x BW(210)+82.5 (strict)

The only thing I'm worried about is frequency... the latest trend seems to be hitting muscles 2-3x per week, and with something like this I'd only each each muscle group (LOWER, PUSH, PULL) once a week. The solution would be to add accessories for other lifts for example tricep work on LOWER day to assist the press and lateral raison on chin up day, etc.

Let me know what you guys think.

 

[corpse]

no curl day?

on a serious note, just try it. i would rotate the exercises, though. or add bench/dips/rows and a curl day or two.

 

[selfcritical]

I did something similar when i was running Easy Strength. I set a 55lb PR on the Trap Bar after 8 weeks, so i didn't feel bad about that.

 

[WandySaku2]

Has anyone experienced something similar?

I find that the Deadlift / Squat / Bench ''big 3'' leaves so many holes. I know some powerlifters who pull 600 off the floor but can't do 10 BW chin ups. In terms of lifting for athletic purposes too, squatting and deadlift take a toll on the joints (for me at least).

I was thinking of something like

Monday: Trap DL (5 x 5)
Tues: OFF
Wed: Press (5 x 5)
Thurs: OFF
Fri: Weighted Chin Ups (5 x 5)
Sat: OFF
Sun: OFF

Current best on each lift is as follows
Trap DL: 8 x 495 (straps and belt)
Press: 10 x 135 (strict, down to upper chest)
Chin Ups: 5 x BW(210)+82.5 (strict)

The only thing I'm worried about is frequency... the latest trend seems to be hitting muscles 2-3x per week, and with something like this I'd only each each muscle group (LOWER, PUSH, PULL) once a week. The solution would be to add accessories for other lifts for example tricep work on LOWER day to assist the press and lateral raison on chin up day, etc.

Let me know what you guys think.

Why don't you do all 3 exercises on the same day and split that over 2-3 days a week?

 

[Oblivian]

If you think the Big 3 leaves so many holes, I'm surprised that you are doing a minimalist approach with the potential of leaving a lot of holes.

 

[Bodil]

no curl day?

on a serious note, just try it. i would rotate the exercises, though. or add bench/dips/rows and a curl day or two.

Not really a fan of curls... they have their place once in a while as chin up assistance, but wouldn't schedule it into the workouts. I was thinking of rotating the exercises indeed and doing something like:

Week 1: Trap DL, Press, Chin Ups

Week 2: Box Squats, Dips, Rows

Week 3: Trap DL, Press, Chin Ups

etc.

Why don't you do all 3 exercises on the same day and split that over 2-3 days a week?

I've tried that before and honestly I hate workouts that last much more than 45-50 mins, and while some exercises can be paired (ex: chin ups and press), others like trap DL and chin ups (grip, back strength) don't do so well together if you're trying to hit PRs.

The ''solution'' like I said was to add assistance exercises

Day 1 - Chin Ups 5 x 5
LOWER assist - GHR
PUSH assist - tricep extensions

Day 2 - Press 5 x 5
PULL assist - Face Pulls
LOWER assist - Split Squats

Day 3 - Trap DL 5 x 5
PULL assist - BW Pull Ups
PUSH assist - BW Dips

That way every muscle is hit more frequently and workouts are kept somewhat short.

If you think the Big 3 leaves so many holes, I'm surprised that you are doing a minimalist approach with the potential of leaving a lot of holes.

A minimalist approach has nothing to do with leaving holes. You can cover everything with a minimalist approach, just like you can leave many holes with a ''bro split'' approach. The ''big 3'' is very specific to powerlifting, which is a sport on its own, and has very little carryover to athletes.

For athletic purposes, the squat and deadlift are interchangeable, I wouldn't ask an athlete to perform each 1-2x a week not to burn out the CNS and to spare the lower back/joints. If I had to pick one I'd go with the deadlift, simply because you rarely go into 90+ degree knee flexion in most sports and the grip strength is a big plus. The Trap Bar virtually has the upsides of both, while sparring the lower back.

As far as athletic purposes, the bench is fairly useless compared to dips/OHP. I know it's the #1 bro lift, but the strict standing Press or the push press are vastly superior when it comes to full body tension, coordination, etc.

Chin Ups cover the rowing part which is really lacking in the powerlifting big 3, as well as keeping your bodyweight in check, you can gain 50lbs and your Press / Trap DL will shoot up, but your Chin Up will go down the drain. It keeps a balance.

 

[Oblivian]

A minimalist approach has nothing to do with leaving holes. You can cover everything with a minimalist approach, just like you can leave many holes with a ''bro split'' approach. The ''big 3'' is very specific to powerlifting, which is a sport on its own, and has very little carryover to athletes.

For athletic purposes, the squat and deadlift are interchangeable, I wouldn't ask an athlete to perform each 1-2x a week not to burn out the CNS and to spare the lower back/joints. If I had to pick one I'd go with the deadlift, simply because you rarely go into 90+ degree knee flexion in most sports and the grip strength is a big plus. The Trap Bar virtually has the upsides of both, while sparring the lower back.

As far as athletic purposes, the bench is fairly useless compared to dips/OHP. I know it's the #1 bro lift, but the strict standing Press or the push press are vastly superior when it comes to full body tension, coordination, etc.

Chin Ups cover the rowing part which is really lacking in the powerlifting big 3, as well as keeping your bodyweight in check, you can gain 50lbs and your Press / Trap DL will shoot up, but your Chin Up will go down the drain. It keeps a balance.

My point isn't to have a Big 3 vs. your routine argument. My point is that you are limiting yourself here. I have no idea why you would exclude some form of squatting from your routine - even if you are rotating it in every other week. The reason that only working on the big 3 has limitations is because it's only 3 freaking lifts. So what do you decide to do? 3 lifts.

 

[Bodil]

My point isn't to have a Big 3 vs. your routine argument. My point is that you are limiting yourself here. I have no idea why you would exclude some form of squatting from your routine - even if you are rotating it in every other week. The reason that only working on the big 3 has limitations is because it's only 3 freaking lifts. So what do you decide to do? 3 lifts.

The reason why the big 3 is limited is because it has zero rowing movement and because the squat/deadlift overlap too much, not because it's 3 lifts. Some people are built to Hinge (deadlift variations) others are built better to Squat. You can either pick one, or alternate weekly, or do 2 weeks of hinge, 1 week of squat, etc. It doesn't have to completely abolish either.

Examples of 3 lifts that are complete:
Front Squat / Dips / BB Rows
Deadlift / Press / Chin Ups
Power Clean / Weighted Push Ups / Seal DB Rows
Zercher Squat / Hand Stand Push Ups / Pull Ups
Etc.

In the end it all depends on your goals. Is it limiting? Depends, for who?
For bodybuilding and someone looking to compete and maximize muscle development? Yes.
For a powerlifter looking to up his total? Yes.
For an athlete looking to increase power / speed while improving skill-wise for a sport at the same time and remaining injury free? No.

 

[corpse]

The reason why the big 3 is limited is because it has zero rowing movement and because the squat/deadlift overlap too much, not because it's 3 lifts. Some people are built to Hinge (deadlift variations) others are built better to Squat. You can either pick one, or alternate weekly, or do 2 weeks of hinge, 1 week of squat, etc. It doesn't have to completely abolish either.

Examples of 3 lifts that are complete:
Front Squat / Dips / BB Rows
Deadlift / Press / Chin Ups
Power Clean / Weighted Push Ups / Seal DB Rows
Zercher Squat / Hand Stand Push Ups / Pull Ups
Etc.

In the end it all depends on your goals. Is it limiting? Depends, for who?
For bodybuilding and someone looking to compete and maximize muscle development? Yes.
For a powerlifter looking to up his total? Yes.
For an athlete looking to increase power / speed while improving skill-wise for a sport at the same time and remaining injury free? No.

i wasn't serious with the curl days. sorry for that.

top athletes of the past and today have no ploblem with just rotating squats, deads, bench, standing press, pull ups, dips, rows and the quick lifts within a sound routine.

and stop looking at the bench press like it is a bro lift. it is far from being "useless" compared to the press or dips. it is the number one exercise for developing horizontal pushing power and hypertrophy for a reason. because it works.

tbh, chin ups cover your so called athletic performance to no degree just because you don't hang from a bar in the most sports.
you need to generate rowing power from the ground and not with your feet hanging in the air.
i would be more afraid of a strong deadlifter than a strong chin up guy at any given day.

if you are into minimalist stuff look for doug hepburn, bill starr, dan john stuff or even brooks kubik or anthony ditillo. or any other old school shit.

but all of them don't dismiss the bench press.

e.g.

http://danjohn.net/2011/01/minimalist-training/

https://www.t-nation.com/training/lessons-from-southwood


cheers

 

[Oblivian]

The reason why the big 3 is limited is because it has zero rowing movement and because the squat/deadlift overlap too much, not because it's 3 lifts. Some people are built to Hinge (deadlift variations) others are built better to Squat. You can either pick one, or alternate weekly, or do 2 weeks of hinge, 1 week of squat, etc. It doesn't have to completely abolish either.

Examples of 3 lifts that are complete:
Front Squat / Dips / BB Rows
Deadlift / Press / Chin Ups
Power Clean / Weighted Push Ups / Seal DB Rows
Zercher Squat / Hand Stand Push Ups / Pull Ups
Etc.

In the end it all depends on your goals. Is it limiting? Depends, for who?
For bodybuilding and someone looking to compete and maximize muscle development? Yes.
For a powerlifter looking to up his total? Yes.
For an athlete looking to increase power / speed while improving skill-wise for a sport at the same time and remaining injury free? No.

Yet your routine does....

 

[corpse]

The reason why the big 3 is limited is because it has zero rowing movement and because the squat/deadlift overlap too much, not because it's 3 lifts. Some people are built to Hinge (deadlift variations) others are built better to Squat. You can either pick one, or alternate weekly, or do 2 weeks of hinge, 1 week of squat, etc. It doesn't have to completely abolish either.

Examples of 3 lifts that are complete:
Front Squat / Dips / BB Rows
Deadlift / Press / Chin Ups
Power Clean / Weighted Push Ups / Seal DB Rows
Zercher Squat / Hand Stand Push Ups / Pull Ups
Etc.

In the end it all depends on your goals. Is it limiting? Depends, for who?
For bodybuilding and someone looking to compete and maximize muscle development? Yes.
For a powerlifter looking to up his total? Yes.
For an athlete looking to increase power / speed while improving skill-wise for a sport at the same time and remaining injury free? No.

what kind of ahtlete are you?

 

[Bodil]

Yet your routine does....

That's what ''it doesn't have to'' means. It can or it cannot and the ramifications will be minor. I've also stated that you can alternate between Hinge and Squat from one week to another. No offense but you're coming off as pretty dense and/or with little knowledge regarding strength training.

what kind of ahtlete are you?

Boxing but have no interest in competing.

 

[Gfreak]

If i was only doing those 3 lifts, here's what i would do.

monday:
DL 5x5
Press 3x10
chinups 3x10

wednesday:
press 5x5
DL 3x10
Chinups 3x10

Friday:
Chinups 5x5
press 3x10
DL 3x10

But I also probably wouldn't do just those 3.

 

[gspieler]

So you're doing about as much work/week as a single hard full-body workout? I'm not sure that's enough volume to make steady progress for anyone beyond novices. I'd wager you'd make better progress(and assuming good technique, stst injury free), doing all three lifts in one workout, and lifting 2x/week(one heavy, one light/moderate). Better yet:

Day 1:
Squat - 5x5
Press - 5x5
Chins - 5x5

Day 2:
DL - 5x5
Bench - 5x5
Rows - 5x5

 

[Bodil]

So you're doing about as much work/week as a single hard full-body workout? I'm not sure that's enough volume to make steady progress for anyone beyond novices. I'd wager you'd make better progress(and assuming good technique, stst injury free), doing all three lifts in one workout, and lifting 2x/week(one heavy, one light/moderate). Better yet:

Day 1:
Squat - 5x5
Press - 5x5
Chins - 5x5

Day 2:
DL - 5x5
Bench - 5x5
Rows - 5x5

Might give that a shot, given that it covers a wider variety. My main concern is being burned out after say squats, to hit a chin up PR.

 

[MatterOverMind]

You seem to think you know everything, so why are you even asking a question?

Just do your shitty routine and be smugly satisfied with never getting strong.

 

[Oblivian]

That's what ''it doesn't have to'' means. It can or it cannot and the ramifications will be minor. I've also stated that you can alternate between Hinge and Squat from one week to another. No offense but you're coming off as pretty dense and/or with little knowledge regarding strength training.

You sound groundbreaking with your 3 lift routine at the same set/rep frequency without any squatting movement. I'm sure it will take you far. My guess is that your squat #'s suck and you specifically avoid that lift because of it.

 

[Bodil]

You seem to think you know everything, so why are you even asking a question?

Just do your shitty routine and be smugly satisfied with never getting strong.

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You seem really well liked around here. I can see why.

You sound groundbreaking with your 3 lift routine at the same set/rep frequency without any squatting movement. I'm sure it will take you far. My guess is that your squat #'s suck and you specifically avoid that lift because of it.

You got my all figured out it seems. Why don't you put money where your mouth is and post a vid of your squat?

 

[Oblivian]

You got my all figured out it seems. Why don't you put money where your mouth is and post a vid of your squat?

What would my squat have to do with your routine or your squat?

You asked us what we think about your program. I don't think you've had a single positive response to your routine. Your design for the program seemed to be around "not leaving holes". Well your routine does, significantly. A simple 5x5 on 3 lifts which primarily hit the upper body is not a good plan. Couple that with "I don't want my workout to last longer than 45-50 minutes". Good luck with your legs and hips with your only lift touching those being trap bar deadlifts once a week on an extremely short time frame.

So again, my guess is that you are specifically avoiding squatting because you aren't good at it. I may be wrong, but I've seen it multiple times. I did the same thing with bench press. It does you no good in the long run, and I can't imagine running a routine without some form of squatting in there.

 

[wufabufa]

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You seem really well liked around here. I can see why.

<{cruzshake}>

Before you make retarded assumptions, you might want to check his join date. This "like" thing only started about 2.5 years ago and that dude has been posting here for nearly 11 years.