Mid-air Collusion (Mueller Thread v. 19)

Status
Not open for further replies.
computer fogie said:
You would think that would be enough for Trump to keep his word, and for an investigation to find lots of wrongdoing. What happened?
Click to expand...
It's not realistic and Trump as he does so often spoke without thinking.
 
waiguoren said:
This is irrelevant. There is no need to get tribal about this. Political parties aren't a fundamental part of our system of government. Neither is the Office of Special Counsel. You're not going deep enough. What are the specific circumstances that justify appointment of a special counsel? Should Eric Holder have been able to appoint a special counsel to investigate President Obama for any reason whatsoever?

Our adherence to rules and procedures makes us strong. There should be specific rules about the circumstances in which appointment is acceptable. The idea that the AG should have this power alone and that this power should be unlimited doesn't mesh with the principles of limited government our system used to be based upon.
Click to expand...

In your version of the world, foreign governments can conspire with candidate because neither you nor I know the evidence special counsel has on anyone.

If the President or Presidentsl candidate is accused of breaking the law then there should some means to investigate. If not then any candidate could theoretically rig an election, kill revival opponents, etc. As long as he becomes President he’s untouchable unless someone finds the smoking gun.
 
waiguoren said:
I'm saying that the anti-Trump partisans in our country haven't put enough thought the issues of the proper circumstances for appointment of special counsel nor to the proper purview of these investigations beyond "if he's my political enemy, he should be fully investigated, anal probes and all."
Click to expand...
Anti Trump partisans? You're ridiculous. This is a special counsel appointed by a Republican, run by a Republican behind a Congress that is fully controlled by Republicans.

You need to open your eyes. And you don't need to keep skirting the fact you are a team trump guy. If you make cogent arguments cogent people will take them at face value. I do see that you're in the minority as a trump supporter so I get why you want to avoid that given the conversation.
 
ShadowRun said:
Wasn't that about her mishandling classified emails being deleted, servers being acid washed, devices being destroyed by hammers along with her staff having a few immunity deals?
Click to expand...

We'll have to see what his "Special Prosecutor" is going to charge her with... THEN we'll know the deal!
 
waiguoren said:
I disagree with this characterization, and I don't see its relevance to this conversation.



I'm not, and I don't see the relevance to this conversation.



You're dodging the fundamental question: what specific circumstances justify the appointment of special counsel? Were you a fan of the Starr investigation, for example? I opposed it.



Point me to where I "disrespected" Mueller. I specifically noted he seems like a thorough guy and I await his final report. I'm saying that the anti-Trump partisans in our country haven't put enough thought the issues of the proper circumstances for appointment of special counsel nor to the proper purview of these investigations beyond "if he's my political enemy, he should be fully investigated, anal probes and all."
Click to expand...

Well, when there is an investigation into a sitting President's campaign involving suspected collusion with a foreign government, and the President fires the person heading that investigation (Comey). The AG had already recused himself from the investigation, there needs to be an independent investigator at this point imo. Special Counsel was definitely warranted since the President would basically be appointing the person to lead the investigation into him if there wasn't one, and how can you really have faith in an investigation where the President is choosing who is investigating him? Special Counsel was definitely warranted.
 
andnowweknow said:
The Mueller investigation was completely warranted, Trump has nobody to blame but himself.

Mueller is as well respected a person as has existed in government. Ever.

Let him do his report. See where the chips fall. Stop whining about the process and acting like he's investigating nothing. He's not going to invent evidence, so settle down.

And Obama didn't comport himself in a way that warranted this sort of treatment. Trump has.
Click to expand...
He was respected and well regarded for his dedication to the law... until it came time to investigate Russian election fuckery.
Then he became a Democrat who rigs investigations against poor Donald Trump
 
Strychnine said:
"Federal law makes it a crime for any person to "solicit, accept or receive" a contribution or "anything of value" from a foreign person for a U.S. political campaign or "for the purpose of influencing any election for federal office."

http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-trump-russians-legal-analysis-20170711-story.html#
Click to expand...
I've a feeling the whole thing will become a national debate about what "anything of value" means.
It should be determined according to campaign finance law, but somehow people think it's decided by popular referendum.
 
The name of Benedict Arnold came to mean traitor. Sometime in the not too distant future, the name Trump will come to be idiomatic for liar.

Maybe the term will mean both.

"That guy couldn't tell the truth to save his life, he Trumps about everything."
 
I still lol at "acid washed".

That's a term nobody with any kind of savvy actually uses. <Lmaoo>
 
vengeful said:
Well, when there is an investigation into a sitting President's campaign involving suspected collusion with a foreign government, and the President fires the person heading that investigation (Comey). The AG had already recused himself from the investigation, there needs to be an independent investigator at this point imo. Special Counsel was definitely warranted since the President would basically be appointing the person to lead the investigation into him if there wasn't one, and how can you really have faith in an investigation where the President is choosing who is investigating him? Special Counsel was definitely warranted.
Click to expand...

What specific facts/events originated the FBI investigation you speak of? This information has not been made public and therefore we still don't know the answer. Collusion is not a crime. Even if it were, you write of "suspected collusion", but you use the passive voice. That leads you to avoid the key issue: who in the FBI suspected the Trump campaign of "collusion", and on what specific grounds? To know this, we must see the investigation's originating documents. If the investigation was mostly or entirely founded on the Steele dossier, our system has failed.

You're correct that it would be inappropriate to have Trump appoint directly an investigator to look into his own campaign. It appeared (and still appears) that the Russian state hacked the DNC and DCCC e-mail systems. A nonpartisan commission could have been formed to investigate foreign interference in the 2016 election. If that commission were to discover evidence of crimes, it could refer that evidence to federal prosecutors. There would be no political pressure on the commission to find a particular outcome. See the 9/11 commission for reference.

Mueller is a prosecutor investigating the Trump campaign. If Mueller fails to indict the head of that campaign (Trump Sr.), he will be attacked. If Mueller indicts Trump, he will be attacked. Thus the mere appointment of special counsel to investigate a sitting president is dangerously political. No matter the outcome, millions from one side or the other will lose faith in the political system.
 
“Collusion is not a crime” and yet you claim to be an unbiased critic?

Conspiracy to defraud the US is a crime.
 
There are only the best kind of reasons to initiate the Special investigation.
 
Bro, just fess up and tell us why the investigation was started. We all are hanging by a thread.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Latest posts

Forum statistics

Threads
1,275,210
Messages
57,974,693
Members
175,888
Latest member
whatsername

Share this page

Back
Top