1. We now have a new forum called Fantasy Matchup Discussion. Access it here

Mid-air Collusion (Mueller Thread v. 19)

Discussion in 'The War Room' started by Quipling, Aug 8, 2018.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Quipling

    Quipling Red Belt

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2012
    Messages:
    9,416
    Likes Received:
    16,275
    Location:
    purgatory
    Mod note from previous thread: Please post in here with regards to the subject at hand. Any general chat can go in the WR OT thread.

    Just to be clear, going forward, these type of posts also count of derailing:
    1. Talking about how the thread is derailed/ how mods should handle a situation (report and continue on topic discussions)
    2. Joking about posters who are reply banned from the thread
    3. Posts with only flaming that do not have any other information about the topic
    4. A reply to any of the above


    Stop doing these. This isn't some game of getting each other reply bans and infractions. Just stay on topic, report when needed. We have the WR OT for posts like the ones above but they have no place in a normal thread.


    Creating a new thread because the old one is huge, and there are some new developments

    New Big Updates:
    • Trump admits that the Trump Tower meeting was about receiving campaign assistance from the Russian government. Claims he didn't know about it, though
    • Jr. admits to attempting to obtain campaign dirt through the meeting. Indicates he may have illicitly accessed an opposition website
    • Giuliani divulges the existence of a second Trump Tower meeting
    • Manafort trial is ongoing.

    Major events so far:
    • Manafort, Trump's campaign manager and transition committee member has been indicted arising from misconduct reaching into 2017 related to payments received through 2014 from the pro-russia faction of Ukraine's pre-war government. He has pleaded not guilty. The indictment has since been expanded by 13 claims. Manafort's bond has been revoked because of witness tampering. His countersuit has been dismissed, as has his claim that Mueller's appointment violated Article II.
    • Gates has pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI and conspiring (with Manafort) to commiting tax fraud, failing to register as a foreign agent, and lying to the FBI
    • George Papadopolous pleaded guilty to lying to federal investigators in 2017 about activities occuring 2016-17. Admits to meeting with various Russian officials regarding setting up meetings and "dirt" on Hillary while acting on behalf of the Trump campaign, something he previously denied.
    • Mike Flynn, Trump's National Security Advisor, has also pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI with respect to several meetings that he had with the Russian ambassador. Flynn was allegedly involved in other business involving Turkey, but has not yet been charged with respect to that behavior.
    • 13 Russian indictment for activity starting in 2014 and continuing through 2017. A US citizen pleaded guilty for agreeing to help them.
    • An attorney linked to Manafort, Gates, and a Russian oligarch has pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI
    • Yohai, Manafort's former son-in-law has agreed to cooperate with the Justice Department
    • Daniels's lawsuit has somehow, insanely, gotten linked up to the Mueller investigation thanks to alleged wrongdoing and influence-peddling by Michael Cohen
    • Twelve Russian intelligence officers have been indicted for conspiracy against the United States and aggravated identity theft. The indictment should be mandatory reading.
    Dumb Talking Points:
    Several things have already come of this.

    ?????

    Not really. And, even if this were true, that is irrelevant to events predating his inauguration.

    Wrong. Read the indictment.

    The office of special counsel is not part of the FBI, though they are working with the FBI. The FBI has literally thousands of employees and lots of different offices and departments.

    Entrapment is only a defense to being charged with the crimes you were "entrapped" into committing. It is not a defense against being charged with other crimes.

    This is just a bad argument.

    Previous thread

    http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/t...r-12-indictments-mueller-thread-v-18.3797951/
     
  2. waiguoren

    waiguoren Silver Belt

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2009
    Messages:
    12,010
    Likes Received:
    8,131
    C-SPAN:

    Josh Barro vs. Alan Dershowitz

    Obviously Barro is in over his head here, but credit to him for putting up a good fight. Covers most of the topics in the OP plus some of the important constitutional issues. Much higher-level discussion than anything you'll get from CNN/MSNBC/FOX.

     
  3. Joe

    Joe :l

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2011
    Messages:
    14,054
    Likes Received:
    14,817
    Location:
    Newport Beach,CA
  4. Joe

    Joe :l

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2011
    Messages:
    14,054
    Likes Received:
    14,817
    Location:
    Newport Beach,CA
    the law and order president
     
  5. Rational Poster

    Rational Poster War Room Messiah Platinum Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2013
    Messages:
    32,683
    Likes Received:
    32,791
  6. Madmick

    Madmick Cerebrage Staff Member Senior Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2005
    Messages:
    41,243
    Likes Received:
    35,650
    Location:
    NorCal
    Stay on topic.
     
    Quipling likes this.
  7. Quipling

    Quipling Red Belt

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2012
    Messages:
    9,416
    Likes Received:
    16,275
    Location:
    purgatory
    https://www.usnews.com/news/top-new...e-gates-completes-testimony-in-manafort-trial

    Gates's testimony is over. His testimony started Monday, August 6, and went on for the better part of two days.

    Highlights:
    Gates extensively described the business in Ukraine

    Gates and Manafort discussed supporting Steven Calk as sec army after Calk "loaned" Manafort money

    Gates testified about helping Manafort avoid taxes by reporting income as loans, not reporting foreign a counts, or routing it through shell companies. Gates helped Manafort file false tax returns and create false loans. He also helped Manafort convert pdfs to word docs.

    Gates cheated Manafort out of several hundred thousand dollars


    Gates told the government, as part of the plea, about several other crimes not listed in the indictment


    Gates admitted to lying to the feds. He also admitted to having an affair.
     
  8. OverPressure

    OverPressure Your friendly bartender!

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2015
    Messages:
    51,059
    Likes Received:
    73,661
    Location:
    Approximate
    I posted this earlier in the last thread just before it closed. Hope that's not a violation.


    So, just for fun, I decided to string together the many Trump stances on Russian election interference in one quote.

    "It could be Russia but it could also be China, it could be lots of other people, it could also be someone sitting on their bed that weighs 400 pounds. Maybe there is no hacking, they always blame Russia, and they blame Russia because they think they're trying to tarnish me with Russia. I know nothing about Russia. I have no idea if it's Russia, or China or somebody, it could be somebody sitting in a bed some place, they have no idea.

    As far as hacking, I think it was Russia, but I think we also get hacked by other countries, other people. Knowing something about hacking, if you don't catch the hacker in the act, okay it's very hard to say who did the hacking. I think it was Russia, and I think it could've been other people, and other countries, could've been a lot of different people interfered.

    I accept our Intelligence community's conclusion that Russia's meddling in the 2016 elections took place, could be other people also. Uh, there's a lot of people out there."

    ... makes perfect sense.
     
    Juventud, kpt018, Gandhi and 7 others like this.
  9. OverPressure

    OverPressure Your friendly bartender!

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2015
    Messages:
    51,059
    Likes Received:
    73,661
    Location:
    Approximate
    What sort of conclusion do you draw from this, anyone who argues for the propriety of the people surrounding the POTUS?

    If it's unimportant because it's underlings, what does that say about Trump's judgement?

    Remember, this question is about Trump, not anyone else.
     
    Bobby 3 Sticks likes this.
  10. Ophydian

    Ophydian Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2010
    Messages:
    2,563
    Likes Received:
    3,806
    I’ll take a stab at this. The Trump companies do not have a compliance department. If they did, due diligence would had been performed on every person prior to being associated with the campaign. Therefore, it is Trumps compliance department who is at fault here.
     
  11. PolishHeadlock

    PolishHeadlock Putin Belt Platinum Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2012
    Messages:
    42,416
    Likes Received:
    38,155
    Location:
    Phila fucking delphia
  12. 44nutman

    44nutman The Original Nut of Sherdog

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2010
    Messages:
    9,618
    Likes Received:
    21,383
    Location:
    Space Mountain
    Reagan, Harding, Grant and Nixon, they are considered to have the most corrupt administrations by a majority of historians. Grant usually ranks number 1.

    We will see after Trumps done, if he can crack the Mt Rushmore of most corrupt Presidential administrations.
    Grant's administration is the Gold Standard for corruption, unlike Trump, Grant was a decent dude, but Grants problem was his loyalty to his bad appointments.
     
    Juventud, kpt018, M3t4tr0n and 4 others like this.
  13. Limbo Pete

    Limbo Pete Here comes the stapler

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2013
    Messages:
    19,774
    Likes Received:
    37,375
    Grant was a terrible politician. Great general, not cut out for politics.
     
    OverPressure likes this.
  14. Rational Poster

    Rational Poster War Room Messiah Platinum Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2013
    Messages:
    32,683
    Likes Received:
    32,791
    I wouldn't even go that far.

    Grant spent most of the war getting his ass kicked while having every advantage possible that an army could hope for.

    If not for the insurmountable material and manpower advantage the North had we'd be speaking with a Southern twang.

    The Union fucking sucked.
     
    OverPressure likes this.
  15. 44nutman

    44nutman The Original Nut of Sherdog

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2010
    Messages:
    9,618
    Likes Received:
    21,383
    Location:
    Space Mountain
    I would disagree, about being a great general, better than average would be my opinion. The south had way better Generals.
    Once Stonewall Jackson, died, it was just a matter of time. Lee never had a second that could institute his plans, which was moving fast, his other 2nds lacked the killer instinct, balls and ability to rally their men, like Jackson. Jackson was a horrible racist, but a hell of a general.
    As someone who loves history, Jackson and Hannibal are my two favorite generals, which is ironic, one is a black guy and the other is a horrible racist.
    Grant was like a HW with a great chin and one punch KO power. He had better resources, equipment, and more manpower. He basically just walked down the south, eating punches the whole way. He knew eventually he would land the haymaker, and it would all be over. His use of artillery was brilliant though, will give him credit for that.

    Since you are a MOD, rolling in dat Dana White money, you might want to move my post to the lounge, since its way off topic or let it stay. Either way I don't mind.
     
  16. Rational Poster

    Rational Poster War Room Messiah Platinum Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2013
    Messages:
    32,683
    Likes Received:
    32,791
    Longstreet was better than Lee and Jackson.
     
  17. Joe

    Joe :l

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2011
    Messages:
    14,054
    Likes Received:
    14,817
    Location:
    Newport Beach,CA
    why would the president need to introduce himself to Putin via letter? Why is rand Paul delivering it? Why is rand Paul even in Russia?
     
  18. 44nutman

    44nutman The Original Nut of Sherdog

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2010
    Messages:
    9,618
    Likes Received:
    21,383
    Location:
    Space Mountain
    Rand was asking Putin for some tea to give to his neighbor.
     
  19. Sohei

    Sohei A Smocking gun

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2003
    Messages:
    28,005
    Likes Received:
    6,368
    Did Rand curtsy to Putin when he delivered the letter like Trump did to the Saudis?
     
  20. Son of Jamin

    Son of Jamin Make MMA Great Again

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2007
    Messages:
    10,893
    Likes Received:
    19,436
    Location:
    Wadiya
    I have nothing to add to the topic except for how I constantly smile at the witty headlines in thread after thread on this subject!
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.