Crime Michigan LDS Church Shooting: Multiple Victims, Fire Reported

[Fedor>Cain]

When I generalize about Christian perspectives I more mean their leadership. Just for the record. And I take it that the average Christian defaults to leadership.

This is true.

 

[Lord_Impaler]

They're not real Christians then.

You’re splitting hairs about a religion that believes Christ was a regular human being on another planet and became a god through being awesome and that all Mormons can also “Christify” themselves and become gods and get their own planets to be gods over too lol. To name ONE difference lol.


Not only are they not Christians…..they are not even remotely close to anything a reasonable person would consider a modern Christian lol.

 

[revoltub]

we know based on studies that gun homicides increase with more guns and decrease with less guns. if you reduced the amount of guns by 25% you would also reduce gun homicides by a similar amount. it's not quite 1-to-1 but it's very close.

The Relationship Between Gun Ownership and Firearm Homicide Rates in the United States, 1981–2010 - PMC

Objectives. We examined the relationship between levels of household firearm ownership, as measured directly and by a proxy—the percentage of suicides committed with a firearm—and age-adjusted firearm homicide rates at the state level. Methods. We ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

You'd have to assume that a large amount of people willing to give up their guns would eventually use one in a violent crime.

 

[BFoe]

They're not real Christians then.

Well this is just straight nonsense.

The Trinity is not a biblical concept, it’s a concept that developed over centuries, from the 2nd-5th century CE. No author of any text compiled into the Bible had a concept of the Trinity. None of the first Christians would have been Trinitarians either.

 

[GoodBadHBK]

Well this is just straight nonsense.

The Trinity is not a biblical concept, it’s a concept that developed over centuries, from the 2nd-5th century CE. No author of any text compiled into the Bible had a concept of the Trinity. None of the first Christians would have been Trinitarians either.

The Father, The Son & The Holy Spirit being One is indeed biblical. Read 1 John.

 

[BFoe]

The Father, The Son & The Holy Spirit being One is indeed biblical. Read 1 John.

1 John 5:7 was added to the text later, probably around the 4th century. It is not present in our earliest manuscripts of 1 John.

 

[Rob Battisti]

Well this is just straight nonsense.

The Trinity is not a biblical concept, it’s a concept that developed over centuries, from the 2nd-5th century CE. No author of any text compiled into the Bible had a concept of the Trinity. None of the first Christians would have been Trinitarians either.

You’re gonna sit here and argue that the Mormon religion is congruent with Christianity?

 

[Cajun]

Of course Jesus was Satan's Brother!! Arent all the Angels children of God? What are they if not siblings? Lol

Dude they DO believe that only through Christ can God be reached and understood. That's the barest definition of Christianity. They don't think Jesus was merely a Prohet.

I get it, they're undesirable Christians. But Christians all the same.

No we would say more cultish imo. Heresy is heresy and some things can't be bridged. I have known some awesome Mormons and most are great people. But WE dont include them. I get they include themselves. Again, jehovas wittnesses would be in the same boat.

 

[Cajun]

You’re splitting hairs about a religion that believes Christ was a regular human being on another planet and became a god through being awesome and that all Mormons can also “Christify” themselves and become gods and get their own planets to be gods over too lol. To name ONE difference lol.


Not only are they not Christians…..they are not even remotely close to anything a reasonable person would consider a modern Christian lol.

100%

 

[Cajun]

Well this is just straight nonsense.

The Trinity is not a biblical concept, it’s a concept that developed over centuries, from the 2nd-5th century CE. No author of any text compiled into the Bible had a concept of the Trinity. None of the first Christians would have been Trinitarians either.

Wrong imo

 

[BFoe]

You’re gonna sit here and argue that the Mormon religion is congruent with Christianity?

I haven’t said anything about the Mormon religion yet. I just pointed out that the concept of the Trinity is a later addition and not a concept that the apostles, first followers of Jesus, or original authors of NT texts would have conceived of or believed in. So if one wants to take the stance that one has to believe in the Trinity to be a Christian, then you would have to exclude all those groups I just mentioned.

So since you asked—yes. Mormons are Christians.

 

[KAZSoliloquy]

You'd have to assume that a large amount of people willing to give up their guns would eventually use one in a violent crime.

which is precisely what the data of those studies shows, though again, it's about a 0.9% increase in gun homicide rate to every 1% increase in gun ownership. so yes you're right that it's not 1-to-1.

 

[Rob Battisti]

I haven’t said anything about the Mormon religion yet. I just pointed out that the concept of the Trinity is a later addition and not a concept that the apostles, first followers of Jesus, or original authors of NT texts would have conceived of or believed in. So if one wants to take the stance that one has to believe in the Trinity to be a Christian, then you would have to exclude all those groups I just mentioned.

So since you asked—yes. Mormons are Christians.

They aren’t, but feel free to disagree.

 

[TheMoa]

I was raised a protestant christian (Presbyterian), my father is a Pastor. I've studied a lot back in my day, too much that I've became skeptical and don't care much about religion.. to each their own.

It's funny that even though Presbyterians are protestants with certain rules, there was a lot of regionalism in the churches. In some city they would look more like Pentecostal evangelicals, in other as a very traditional sole scriptura protestants. Point being that as someone said here leadership influences a lot.

On our church we would consider Catholics (the cult to idols/saints), Mormons (extra books), Jehovah's Witnesses (watch tower literature) and even 7th day Adventists (the cult to sabbath) hereticals and not "true Christians", to commune they would have to be baptized again. But like I said, regionalism would would influence a lot. In some Presbyterian churches the Holy Communion would have wine, in others it would be juice and they would consider someone who drinks wine to be in sin (it's stupid, I know).

There are some fundamentalist evangelicals here in brazil that mix religion with crime and get very aggressive towards other religions, like invading/burning their place of worship (of african religions) or breaking/burning catholic statues of saints/mary.

The irish killing themselves up to 30 years ago, I don't know how much was religion or if it was only politics.

 

[GoodBadHBK]

1 John 5:7 was added to the text later, probably around the 4th century. It is not present in our earliest manuscripts of 1 John.

Ok then Matthew 28 where Jesus tells his disciples to baptize in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

The baptism of Christ has all 3 present with God saying This is my Beloved Son in whom im well pleased and then the Holy Spirit ascended down as a dove.

 

[Jack Reacheround]

Hey, didn’t you get the memo?
We’re supposed to sweep this one under the rug since there is no possible way to claim the perpetrator was trans/liberal/gay.

 

[Crazy Source]

Hey, didn’t you get the memo?
We’re supposed to sweep this one under the rug since there is no possible way to claim the perpetrator was trans/liberal/gay.

Nah, we're just supposed to drop that part and get into a theological discussion on whether Mormons are "real" Christians. Like who gives af? It's all nonsense.

 

[Rob Battisti]

I was raised a protestant christian (Presbyterian), my father is a Pastor. I've studied a lot back in my day, too much that I've became skeptical and don't care much about religion.. to each their own.

It's funny that even though Presbyterians are protestants with certain rules, there was a lot of regionalism in the churches. In some city they would look more like Pentecostal evangelicals, in other as a very traditional sole scriptura protestants. Point being that as someone said here leadership influences a lot.

On our church we would consider Catholics (the cult to idols/saints), Mormons (extra books), Jehovah's Witnesses (watch tower literature) and even 7th day Adventists (the cult to sabbath) hereticals and not "true Christians", to commune they would have to be baptized again. But like I said, regionalism would would influence a lot. In some Presbyterian churches the Holy Communion would have wine, in others it would be juice and they would consider someone who drinks wine to be in sin (it's stupid, I know).

There are some fundamentalist evangelicals here in brazil that mix religion with crime and get very aggressive towards other religions, like invading/burning their place of worship (of african religions) or breaking/burning catholic statues of saints/mary.

The irish killing themselves up to 30 years ago, I don't know how much was religion or if it was only politics.

It always kills me how Protestants, the ones who literally changed the Bible to suit their needs, felt like they could turn around and call Catholics, who Paul literally founded Christ’s church upon, heretics. SMDH

 

[TheMoa]

It always kills me how Protestants, the ones who literally changed the Bible to suit their needs, felt like they could turn around and call Catholics, who Paul literally founded Christ’s church upon, heretics. SMDH

Like I've said, I'm not a believer and I don't care for other people's faith, just how they treat me and those around me.
But if I had a horse in any race I would argue that what Paul and Peter or whoever lived in the first century AD founded and lived as a primitive church is different than what become the catholic church and what later was defined as cannon. Earliest manuscripts of any book in the new testament is from after 100 AD and catholic church first official compilation is from late 300s. Point being that people pick and chose shit today, I have no reason to believe that they didn't do it the past when who could do it had way more power.
Anyway, I have no horse in this race and I respect any christian faith as I respect any chosen religion by whoever practices it.. if you're not killing, stealing and raping people, that's it. (That's why I have no respect for Neopentecostalism as I see it as a pure scam)

 

[Sinister]

I was raised a protestant christian (Presbyterian), my father is a Pastor. I've studied a lot back in my day, too much that I've became skeptical and don't care much about religion.. to each their own.

It's funny that even though Presbyterians are protestants with certain rules, there was a lot of regionalism in the churches. In some city they would look more like Pentecostal evangelicals, in other as a very traditional sole scriptura protestants. Point being that as someone said here leadership influences a lot.

On our church we would consider Catholics (the cult to idols/saints), Mormons (extra books), Jehovah's Witnesses (watch tower literature) and even 7th day Adventists (the cult to sabbath) hereticals and not "true Christians", to commune they would have to be baptized again. But like I said, regionalism would would influence a lot. In some Presbyterian churches the Holy Communion would have wine, in others it would be juice and they would consider someone who drinks wine to be in sin (it's stupid, I know).

There are some fundamentalist evangelicals here in brazil that mix religion with crime and get very aggressive towards other religions, like invading/burning their place of worship (of african religions) or breaking/burning catholic statues of saints/mary.

The irish killing themselves up to 30 years ago, I don't know how much was religion or if it was only politics.

Unfortunately some of the most vicious forms of "Christianity" are practiced in poorer Countries where white missionaries felt they could break more laws and get away with it so long as they had money and political influence.

*gestures vaguely at Uganda*