Opinion Michael Moore says Michelle Obama would crush Trump

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cincymma79 said:
Bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbut trump
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Wouldn't you say it's quite pertinent, given the Bill Burr joke you posted? She's not just some dumb housewife.

No matter what it is, you guys reflexively do the "npb orangemanbad.exe!!" or the "But Trump, this is it!!" nonsense. It's really weird, and I've seen that type of behavior in religious cults, most notably mormonism.
 
I wouldn't vote for her and I have voted for the winner all 5 times. So basically, she loses.
 
Jack V Savage said:
They don't give you millions of actual money that you can spend. They help you win (or try to stop you from winning). It's taken by some to be self-evident that the political system is corrupt or that campaign donations influence policy, but the narrative unravels if you look for evidence or thinking more deeply about it. I think if we're looking at why some unpopular policy passes, right-wing identity politics is a bigger culprit than the corruption theory.

Look at the group. How many people at least imply that they want more pro-worker policy, or even UHC, but that the real threat to America is college students being overzealous culture warriors or television commercials showing too many interracial couples? Or in the last presidential election, there was a dispute about whether Clinton or Trump was the more "pro-establishment" candidate. Clinton was widely respected, highly educated, and experienced so some saw that as making her more "establishment" than Trump, who "respectable" people considered to be a buffoonish crook. But on the other hand, Clinton's policies were far more pro-worker and pro-consumer while Trump's were more pro-owner and pro-corporate. So people got back at "the establishment" by ... giving them everything they wanted and more and fucking themselves over. That dynamic, rather than campaign finance, is the issue.



Again, change is designed to be hard to come by because publics tend to be overeager to make drastic and stupid changes. In our case, there is massive disagreement about the kind of change needed so no one wins by a big enough margin to get their wishlist through. That's frustrating for everyone at times but also good for everyone at times. Overall, though, living standards have been rising for all classes of Americans for 100 years--we've gotten richer, healthier, more free, more-entertained almost nonstop in that period. Crime is on an almost-30-year decline.



I think if you consider compromise to be corruption, it can be seen as corrupting by its nature.



I think it's more about getting more money to help right-wing politicians win. It's not a huge issue at the level of national elections, though.
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I don't think we are going to agree on the extent that the money taints politicians and buys outcomes at every level.

Things like Mitch McConnell's new Kentucky Aluminum Mill/Russia/Sanction Relief are the more visible tip of a much larger iceberg imo. The Prison's lobby pushing for harsher sentencing and more victim-less crimes to swell the numbers so they get job security and bigger budgets. The NRA pushing members to vote against any and all reforms. etc, etc.
 
hillelslovak87 said:
Wouldn't you say it's quite pertinent, given the Bill Burr joke you posted? She's not just some dumb housewife.

No matter what it is, you guys reflexively do the "npb orangemanbad.exe!!" or the "But Trump, this is it!!" nonsense. It's really weird, and I've seen that type of behavior in religious cults, most notably mormonism.
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She is less accomplished by far
 
MikeMcMann said:
I don't think we are going to agree on the extent that the money taints politicians and buys outcomes at every level.

Things like Mitch McConnell's new Kentucky Aluminum Mill/Russia/Sanction Relief are the more visible tip of a much larger iceberg imo. The Prison's lobby pushing for harsher sentencing and more victim-less crimes to swell the numbers so they get job security and bigger budgets. The NRA pushing members to vote against any and all reforms. etc, etc.
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I'm aware of some incidents, but to make the case that it's a system-wide problem rather than a Mitch McConnell problem, we need data (and the data that I've seen--and posted before--doesn't suggest a system-wide problem). And to make the case that the current state of affairs is particularly intolerable, I think we'd also want to see the data over a long period of time (I haven't seen that).

I'd also note that the NRA's power doesn't come from its campaign donations but from the fact that it's representing a large number of highly motivated voters. That's key to the broader point. We're not looking at a situation where we're electing liberal politicians and then they'd doing heel turns after they win office because of the evil donors. Conservatives exist, and they vote for people who promote regressive tax cuts and deregulation and scaled back worker rights, etc. That might not be the primary reason they vote for those candidates, but nonetheless, when they win, they're getting what they asked for.
 
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