Michael Gerson on rightwing Evangelicalism

[Ruprecht]

Oh, I forgot something else about why we should have more discussion about Islam. In case people's geography skills are not up to scratch Australia is next door to the largest Islamic country in the world.

Have you watched SBS or ABC's reporting on Indonesia? They certainly aren't afraid of outlining the role of Islam in Indonesian politics or the persecution of religious minorities.

 

[RollsRoyceGracie]

Yeah and he attacked money changers.


You really think Jesus wouldn't walk into wall street,trump tower, or the white house and beat some ass for all the damages they caused to the world?


Jesus seems like the ultimate anti banker guy....he is completely opposite of the Corporate Slaves that are Right Wingers.

God doesn't condemn the rich, seeing as how He didn't condemn King Solomon. I doubt He's pleased with people who worship money, though.

 

[TheComebackKid]

Damn Rup, let us live man

 

[Ruprecht]

Damn Rup, let us live man

Hey, I took the feedback into consideration and moved it back. I think the title change helps a lot. It's back in the WR now though, so stay on topic.
Having to go through and edit like that makes my "reply ban" finger twitchy.

 

[TheComebackKid]

Hey, I took the feedback into consideration and moved it back. I think the title change helps a lot. It's back in the WR now though, so stay on topic.
Having to go through and edit like that makes my "reply ban" finger twitchy.

Doesn't realize you put us back in general population. Fair enough.

 

[PainIsLIfe]

In the states, Christianity is only really discussed as it relates to policy. Issues such as marriage rights and abortion rights are often discussed along with Christianity because it is Christian Americans who push the policy regarding those issues.

When was the last time Cali voted against gay marriage and what was the percentage of active church going Christians? Under 30%?

A lot of people had/have issues with gay marriage that aren't because they're Bible thumpers.

 

[hillelslovak87]

FIFY


Your first post brought the biblical narrative into the thread:

Jesus' issues with the priestly aristocracy had nothing to do with money changers or merchants. It's absurd, and it shows the people who wrote the gospel had no fucking clue as to what they were talking about. - hillelslovak87
​

I used the Bible to counter your foolish claims about ..... the Bible.

I used the Misha and Talmud (along with Josephus) to buttress my argument about the Bible narrative - you however offered nothing to back your claims.

We can keep going like this, but you were, are, and will be wrong. And you'll just keep attacking the veracity of the Bible instead of owning your mistake.

I highlighted the bible as not being a historical work, and not worthy of buttressing any claims made about here in the real world.

You used it to defend your points. I mean.......

 

[hillelslovak87]

Noam Chomsky's eyes? Yet another statement that you need spelled out. It's painful.

Why bring Noam Chomsky into this? What does he have to do with anything? You worded your response so poorly, it makes no sense while cohering to grammatical structure.

Please attempt to ascend above the level of a chimp on a word processor.

 

[PainIsLIfe]

Christianity specifically endorses slavery. They're one in the same. No surprises here. It is an ideology designed to absolve the cult-member from any personal responsibility and to enable their constant hypocrisy. It is inherently evil.

Noah Webster (Evangelical) -All the miseries and evils which men suffer from vice, crime, ambition, injustice, oppression, slavery and war, proceed from their despising or neglecting the precepts contained in the Bible.

Benjamin Rush - (Evangelical) Domestic slavery is repugnant to the principles of Christianity… It is rebellion against the authority of a common Father. It is a practical denial of the extent and efficacy of the death of a common Savior. It is usurpation of the prerogative of the great Sovereign of the universe who has solemnly claimed an exclusive property in the souls of men.”

John Brown - (Evangelical) believed he was the instrument of God's wrath in punishing men for the sin of owning slaves.


William Lloyd Garrison (Evangelical) -My crime is that I will not go with the multitude to do evil. My singularity is that when I say that freedom is of God and slavery is of the devil, I mean just what I say

William Wilberforce (Evangelical) - God Almighty has set before me two Great Objects: the supression of the Slave Trade and the Reformation of Manners


John Wesley (Evangelical)- In returning I read a very different book, published by an honest Quaker, on that execrable sum of all villanies, commonly called the Slave-trade

Charles Spurgeon - I do from my inmost soul detest slavery . . . and although I commune at the Lord’s table with men of all creeds, yet with a slave-holder I have no fellowship of any sort or kind. Whenever one has called upon me, I have considered it my duty to express my detestation of his wickedness, and I would as soon think of receiving a murderer into my church . . . as a man stealer

 

[PainIsLIfe]

I highlighted the bible as not being a historical work, and not worthy of buttressing any claims made about here in the real world.

You used it to defend your points. I mean.......

Did I now? I think you should re-read the exchange because I only used the gospel account to rebut your claim that Jesus had no issue with the money changers.

Then I used the Talmud and Mishna as proof that the gospel narrative fits with the views of Jews at the time and to show that; yes - Jesus had an issue with the money changers.

You however have done nothing, but make incorrect historical statements about 1 thing after another and insisted that the Bible isn't true as a means to defend your position.

 

[hillelslovak87]

Did I now? I think you should re-read the exchange because I only used the gospel account to rebut your claim that Jesus had no issue with the money changers.

Then I used the Talmud and Mishna as proof that the gospel narrative fits with the views of Jews at the time and to show that; yes - Jesus had an issue with the money changers.

You however have done nothing, but make incorrect historical statements about 1 thing after another and insisted that the Bible isn't true as a means to defend your position.

Yes, you used the bible to buttress your claims about reality. One cannot seriously engage with a person who stoops to such a level. You know that no modern scholar takes the book seriously to support any claims about reality, yet press forth.

In this very thread you are pushing the narrative that the bible is anti slavery. It doesn't get much more foolish than that.

 

[PainIsLIfe]

Yes, you used the bible to buttress your claims about reality. One cannot seriously engage with a person who stoops to such a level. You know that no modern scholar takes the book seriously to support any claims about reality, yet press forth.

In this very thread you are pushing the narrative that the bible is anti slavery. It doesn't get much more foolish than that.

Now I see the problem; your reading comprehension sucks.

I'm suggesting that Christianity is anti-slavery and more importantly to this thread that Evangelicalism is anti-slavery as opposed to being founded on slavery.

I'd say it's a bit more foolish to claim that 1-Jesus wouldn't have had an issue with the money changers. 2-the Jews didn't have an issue with the Tyrian Shekel. 3- The money changers and the merchants weren't gouging the poor. and 4- pretending like you're winning some sort of argument by deflecting instead of defending your statements.

I've already told you that I'm not in this thread to argue the accuracy or historicity of the Bible. So either 1-post something to back up your claims 2-admit you were wrong or 3-stop replying to me.

 

[hillelslovak87]

Now I see the problem; your reading comprehension sucks.

I'm suggesting that Christianity is anti-slavery and more importantly to this thread that Evangelicalism is anti-slavery as opposed to being founded on slavery.

I'd say it's a bit more foolish to claim that 1-Jesus wouldn't have had an issue with the money changers. 2-the Jews didn't have an issue with the Tyrian Shekel. 3- The money changers and the merchants weren't gouging the poor. and 4- pretending like you're winning some sort of argument by deflecting instead of defending your statements.

I've already told you that I'm not in this thread to argue the accuracy or historicity of the Bible. So either 1-post something to back up your claims 2-admit you were wrong or 3-stop replying to me.

You went along with the positive claim of christians regarding the money changers being inherently corrupt. You provided two anecdotes, one from the Mishna, and one from the bible, to buttress these claims. Neither are historical documents, and both make such grievous errors about historical events as to make them null in historical research.

You seem like somebody who reads your bible. The idea that you could read the book and come to the conclusion that it is anti enslavement, is laughable. It's quite like the Islamic claim of "Muhammed outlawed slavery!!", absent the context and actual facts of the situation.

 

[Soul Crusher]

It's just a shitty story, made up like all the others, to live up to some equally shitty prophecy.

Feel free to believe what ever you want. I think Jesus coming back to take care of business is pretty cool. Lots of evil in the world today.

2 Peter 3

3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,

1 Timothy 4

1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

 

[hillelslovak87]

Feel free to believe what ever you want. I think Jesus coming back to take care of business is pretty cool. Lots of evil in the world today.

2 Peter 3

3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,

1 Timothy 4

1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

Sorry, brother, your prophet said when he would come back, and his preachment failed categorically.

“For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and will then repay every man according to his deeds. Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.“ (Matthew 16: 27, 28)

Now learn the parable from the fig tree: when its branch has already become tender and puts forth its leaves, you know that summer is near; so, you too, when you see all these things, recognize that He is near, right at the door. Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.“ (Matthew 24: 25-34)

“Then they will see the Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory. And then He will send forth the angels, and will gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest end of the earth to the farthest end of heaven. Now learn the parable from the fig tree: when its branch has already become tender and puts forth its leaves, you know that summer is near. Even so, you too, when you see these things happening, recognize that He is near, right at the door. Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place…“ (Mark 13:26-30)

“Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. But when these things begin to take place, straighten up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near. Then He told them a parable: Behold the fig tree and all the trees; as soon as they put forth leaves, you see it and know for yourselves that summer is now near. So you also, when you see these things happening, recognize that the kingdom of God is near. Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all things take place.“ (Luke 21:27-32)


A man who claims offense and forgives someone on your behalf without consulting you, demands you hate your family and this world, who commands you to fear and love him at the same time with the threat of infinite punishment is not only not worth worshiping, but is evil.


Lots of the evil today is the direct result of religious faith, and the most atheistic nations have the highest quality of life and least crime. If Jesus wanted people to be better humans, he would be operating against his message and himself.

 

[Soul Crusher]

the most atheistic nations have the highest quality of life and least crime.

Which nations would that be?

 

[hillelslovak87]

Which nations would that be?

Sweden, England, Norway, Switzerland, Belgium, The Netherlands, etc etc etc. And looking at their crime waves of the last decade, it's obviously the result of a certain Abrahamic faith.
http://hdr.undp.org/en/composite/HDI

Creighton University, a Christian school, did reports on quality of life throughout the last decade. Their findings showed the higher religiosity goes, the higher human dysfunction pervades within a given society.

 

[PainIsLIfe]

You went along with the positive claim of christians regarding the money changers being inherently corrupt. You provided two anecdotes, one from the Mishna, and one from the bible, to buttress these claims. Neither are historical documents, and both make such grievous errors about historical events as to make them null in historical research.

You seem like somebody who reads your bible. The idea that you could read the book and come to the conclusion that it is anti enslavement, is laughable. It's quite like the Islamic claim of "Muhammed outlawed slavery!!", absent the context and actual facts of the situation.

You said 1- Jesus' issue with the high priest had nothing to do with the money changers; 2-they've (money changers) always been there; 3- and that Jews didn't care about the Tyrian Shekel.

So I countered you claim with the only evidence we have of life of Jesus (whether it's correct or not isn't the issue since you must use the same account of his life to determine he didn't have the issue).

I showed you that the money changers only showed up to the temple in March and other high feast(holy) days; they weren't there all the time

And I posted evidence that the Isrealites got rid of the Tyrian Shekel as soon as they got autonomy.


Now you aren't playing the game correctly:

I've already told you that I'm not in this thread to argue the accuracy or historicity of the Bible. So either 1-post something (anything) to back up your claims, 2-admit you were wrong or 3-stop replying to me.​

 

[Soul Crusher]

Sweden, England, Norway, Switzerland, Belgium, The Netherlands, etc etc etc. And looking at their crime waves of the last decade, it's obviously the result of a certain Abrahamic faith.
http://hdr.undp.org/en/composite/HDI

You do realize that there's a religion hidden in plain sight that controls those nations and many more? Who do you think is allowing Islam in? Who would love it so much if people became Atheists amongst the chaos?

Spoiler

 

[hillelslovak87]

You said 1- Jesus' issue with the high priest had nothing to do with the money changers; 2-they've (money changers) always been there; 3- and that Jews didn't care about the Tyrian Shekel.

So I countered you claim with the only evidence we have of life of Jesus (whether it's correct or not isn't the issue since you must use the same account of his life to determine he didn't have the issue).

I showed you that the money changers only showed up to the temple in March and other high feast(holy) days; they weren't there all the time

And I posted evidence that the Isrealites got rid of the Tyrian Shekel as soon as they got autonomy.


Now you aren't playing the game correctly:

I've already told you that I'm not in this thread to argue the accuracy or historicity of the Bible. So either 1-post something (anything) to back up your claims, 2-admit you were wrong or 3-stop replying to me.​

Once again, you made the positive claim about the money changers being corrupt. The burden of proof relies upon you, and using the bible as some sort of corroboration is absurd.