Law Medically transitioning minors

Fox by the Sea said:
horseshit post. you're desperate cause you got caught lying.
everybody can see it.
you're garbage.
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pretty sure everyone can see how toxic you are all the time. you get off on being an online asshole anonymously.

oh, and you loathe trans people. that much we know you can't deny. rage on dude.
 
kflo said:
pretty sure everyone can see how toxic you are all the time. you get off on being an online asshole anonymously.

oh, and you loathe trans people. that much we know you can't deny. rage on dude.
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creepy lying garbage human.
 
Fox by the Sea said:
creepy lying garbage human.
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lol. look how you behave on an anonymous forum, and you think someone maybe slightly mis-remembering your position (but not misremembering how much you hate trans people) allows you to behave this way. look in the mirror.......
 
kflo said:
lol. look how you behave on an anonymous forum, and you think someone maybe slightly mis-remembering your position (but not misremembering how much you hate trans people) allows you to behave this way. look in the mirror.......
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Lying creep.
 
GrantB13 said:
There be.... Ways.... Of accessing papers. I'm not necessarily saying that I have the intellect to read difficult papers, but I much prefer numbers and stats to the claims - for or against a claim - rather than "lots of examples".
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I was kinda being facetious. It’s never a bad thing to seek knowledge
 
KAZSoliloquy said:
exactly. it just so happens that this one is a mental health benefit.
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There is no evidence for that and from the data coming out of the UK and Scandinavia the opposite appears to be the case.

And there is negative health side-effects, increased chance of cancer and arthritis not to mention sterility and lack of sexual function, things a child is simply in no position to make an informed decision on.

Even if we make the assumption (one I'm not convinced of) that it can be beneficial for some individuals why not just wait until they are adults? What's the downside of waiting? Is it just that they are more passable if they transition earlier? That seems a very minuscule benefit compared to the devastating consequences to those that go through it and regret it. They'd need to be 100% sure there would be no regrets given the cost of getting it wrong is so high. It's just a terrible risk/reward situation even if you assume it could be beneficial to some.
 
ShadowRun said:
So are you ok with tiny %? Why do you try to minimize the subject ?
A small% of kids get raped is that acceptable because it happens not that much. Take the abortion taking point of pregnancies from incest and rape it’s very rare yet a string talking point from the left (which I agree with )
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Nah what I mean is from my understanding the number of medical professionals that even okay a top surgery for a teenager (I wanna say 16+ IIRC?) or hormones and the like is really, really, really, really, small. Whether one thinks it's warranted in any case or not is another story, I just go by what they say, if it's shown there should be no intervention in any case then so be it.

The point being, it's not some widespread thing as it's reported to be.

I get your logic but I also find that a lotta people that use similar logic abandon when we bring up how many kids are killed with guns.
 
deviake said:
Nah what I mean is from my understanding the number of medical professionals that even okay a top surgery for a teenager (I wanna say 16+ IIRC?) or hormones and the like is really, really, really, really, small. Whether one thinks it's warranted in any case or not is another story, I just go by what they say, if it's shown there should be no intervention in any case then so be it.

The point being, it's not some widespread thing as it's reported to be.

I get your logic but I also find that a lotta people that use similar logic abandon when we bring up how many kids are killed with guns.
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The kids coming out publicly saying they regret it is likely just the tip of the iceberg. There is likely a much larger number who secretly regret it but feel there is no point de-transitioning as they can never go back anyways. Easier to pretend all is well rather than admit you made a huge mistake and be ostracized from their trans community bubble and have to deal with the reality of the irreversible damage done to you. Most I suspect take the blue pill in that scenario.
 
King Joffery said:
The kids coming out publicly saying they regret it is likely just the tip of the iceberg. There is likely a much larger number who secretly regret it but feel there is no point de-transitioning as they can never go back anyways. Easier to pretend all is well rather than admit you made a huge mistake and be ostracized from their trans community bubble and have to deal with the reality of the irreversible damage done to you. Most I suspect take the blue pill in that scenario.
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Yeah I mean I dunno, I can only go by the data we have so far which can be hard to parse out for a laymen. Medical malpractice and mistakes occur in all areas of medicine, I dunno if it's higher with trans people or not or if professionals are misguided on XYZ thing, I'm out of my depth, from my knowledge as of meow that's not the case. My understanding is a lot of (many or most?) trans people don't ever get any kind of surgery, much less kids. The trans people I know are pretty normal and just trying to live their lives. It's a complicated topic with a lot of moving parts, the thing I know for sure is these people are having a real experience and for a lot of them transitioning and being accepted by society eases their burden and allows them to live life and I'm pro that for everyone. I think the whole topic is weaponized in politics to the detriment of these people.

It's also important to note that healthcare, mental and physical, is a work in progress. I think it was only within the last 10 or 15 years that one could get diagnosed with autism and ADHD, for example.
 
King Joffery said:
There is no evidence for that and from the data coming out of the UK and Scandinavia the opposite appears to be the case.
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this is just plain false. almost all studies, especially the larger ones, have all found better mental health outcomes in gender affirming care.
King Joffery said:
And there is negative health side-effects, increased chance of cancer and arthritis not to mention sterility and lack of sexual function, things a child is simply in no position to make an informed decision on.
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there are negative health side-effects to many things we allow minors to do. and if the opposing outcome is suicide, i think the juice is worth the squeeze.
King Joffery said:
Even if we make the assumption (one I'm not convinced of) that it can be beneficial for some individuals why not just wait until they are adults?
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because they kill themselves as kids too.
King Joffery said:
What's the downside of waiting? Is it just that they are more passable if they transition earlier?
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that is certainly a contributing factor. passing is not the be-all-end-all of transgenderism but it certainly helps socially, which inevitably helps mentally and emotionally.
King Joffery said:
That seems a very minuscule benefit compared to the devastating consequences to those that go through it and regret it.
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you've been oversold on the consequences and that's a you problem.
King Joffery said:
They'd need to be 100% sure there would be no regrets given the cost of getting it wrong is so high. It's just a terrible risk/reward situation even if you assume it could be beneficial to some.
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there's not a terrible risk reward to gender affirming care, whether surgery or not and even if there was, there's a risk reward to every surgery. you can die on the operating table any time you go under the knife. i think it's best to let people decide what's best for themselves, with doctor supervision.
 
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KAZSoliloquy said:
this is just plain false. almost all studies, especially the larger ones, have all found better mental health outcomes in gender affirming care.
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The UK's 4 year study already showed this is not true at all.


“The rationale for early puberty suppression remains unclear, with weak evidence regarding the impact on gender dysphoria, mental or psychosocial health,”

KAZSoliloquy said:
there are negative health side-effects to many things we allow minors to do. and if the opposing outcome is suicide, i think the juice is worth the squeeze.
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Studies show getting the kids on hormones and/or surgery did NOT reduce suicide risk. They still committed suicide - because they often have a lot of other underlying psychological problems - like a history of sexual abuse, autism, etc.

You're operating on outdated or simply false information.

KAZSoliloquy said:
that is certainly a contributing factor. passing is not the be-all-end-all of transgenderism but it certainly helps socially, which inevitably helps mentally and emotionally.
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They can just socially transition and get most of the same benefits.
 
Hog-train said:
The UK's 4 year study already showed this is not true at all.


“The rationale for early puberty suppression remains unclear, with weak evidence regarding the impact on gender dysphoria, mental or psychosocial health,”
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and there's a dozen studies saying the opposite. this is how science works.
Hog-train said:
Studies show getting the kids on hormones and/or surgery did NOT reduce suicide risk. They still committed suicide - because they often have a lot of other underlying psychological problems - like a history of sexual abuse, autism, etc.


You're operating on outdated or simply false information.
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journals.plos.org

Gender-affirming care, mental health, and economic stability in the time of COVID-19: A multi-national, cross-sectional study of transgender and nonbinary people

Background Transgender and nonbinary people are disproportionately affected by structural barriers to quality healthcare, mental health challenges, and economic hardship. This study examined the impact of the novel coronavirus disease (COVID-19) crisis and subsequent control measures on...
journals.plos.org journals.plos.org


hell even more than a decade ago, this was the conclusion:


you're objectively incorrect on the scientific and medical consensus.
Hog-train said:
They can just socially transition and get most of the same benefits.
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and the vast majority do lol
 
deviake said:
Nah what I mean is from my understanding the number of medical professionals that even okay a top surgery for a teenager (I wanna say 16+ IIRC?) or hormones and the like is really, really, really, really, small. Whether one thinks it's warranted in any case or not is another story, I just go by what they say, if it's shown there should be no intervention in any case then so be it.

The point being, it's not some widespread thing as it's reported to be.

I get your logic but I also find that a lotta people that use similar logic abandon when we bring up how many kids are killed with guns.
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Those are good points it is rare but I think the issue is it’s cheerd on and celebrated by some in the left. Where as gun deaths aren’t. I went to a some rural town high school where people had legit shotguns in racks of thr back windows. I think the left has legit points that USA would be better without guns in general . But we can’t remove all the guns and only the bad people will have guns .. Also different point is why was there so many trans kid shootings this year per capita .
 
edit: delete
 
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