Max Holloway at 155, how far can he go?

[Deleted member 498977]

I think he is too weak in 155, he can crack top 10, but it's gonna be hard for him to reach the title. Too many talented guys in 155, who also seem to be stronger than Max.

Can someone explain though why Holloway is very skinny but very heavy? I saw some thread discussing walk around weight of fighters the other day, and Max is heavier than Dustin, he is almost as heavy as Khabib iirc.

He teats a lot of sweets and ballons up to 195 pounds.

He needs proper diet and SC.

155 is his option, weight cuts to 145 will kill him.

I think he can bulk up and reinvent himself like Olivera at 155.

 

[HuskySamoan]

1. Oliveira- I actually think it’s a winnable fight for Max, he could just outwork Oliviera on the feet. 50/50
2. Poirier- another 50/50 fight IMO. The first one was competitive and if Max adds a bit of muscle he could win the rematch.
3. Gaethje- he could outlast Gaethje as well. 60/40 Max
4. Islam- I doubt Max could stop the TDs. 70/30 Islam
5. Chandler- pretty much the same as with Gaethje, 60/40 Max
6. Dariush- Max is much better on the feet and doubt Dariush could take him down. 70/30 Max
7. Fiziev- the most winnable fight for Max as Fiziev isn’t the biggest LW, not a KO artist and does slow down a bit in the later rounds. 70/30 Max
8. Gamrot- Gamrot wrestle fucks him. 60/40 Gamrot
9. Arman- the same as Gamrot 60/40 Arman
10. Damir- a very dangerous opponent for Max. He might as good or even better than Max in every part of the game and he’s bigger. 60/40 Damir

Outside of top10 maybe Guram, Conor and Jallin Turner could beat him as well

1. Oliveiras takedowns and striking have improved so much since he fought Max where he lost by first round injury its crazy. I don't think Max can easily finish Oliveira early nor do I think he can out work him, his best chance is to play punching bag and rely on his chin, do his best to defend takedowns and hope to God Charles tires before he kills him, then pick up the pace at some point in round 3 as Charles may fade and then Max can look for a late TKO. Perhaps attack the body early and often to help facilitate the slowing down of Charles. If Charles can find takedowns U give Max basically no chance. 70/30 Oliveira

2. Poirier, bigger, stronger, hits way harder and is the better boxer both offensively and defensively. Poirier showed us vs Max the first time he has a tank to go 5 rounds too, Max has if anything looked to be slowing down a bit where Poirier hasn't show signs of slowing down. Poirier 70/30

3. Gaethje, similar to the Oliveira fight minus the takedowns and Gaethjes gas tank failing is more reliable. Gaethje is going to break down Max's legs something fierce and when they trade leather...my God does Gaethje hit way damn harder, Poirier had Max stumbling with his power years ago, I think the odds if Gaethje or Oliveira knocking him out now is high. We've never seen someone go to town on Holloways legs either. In a 3 round fight irs really hard to see Max winning because Gaethjes got 2 rounds of good asswhooping in him. 3 rounds Gaethje 70/30, 5 rounds Gaethje 60/40.

4. Islam Makhachev, I don't think Max can keep Islam off him and Islam won't gas. Max lacks the grappling off his back and the strength and size to defend the takedowns. Islam 90/10

5. Michael Chandler, this to me is perhaps the most winnable fight for Max. If it's 3 rounds I'd still favor Chandler, round 1 he will land shots on Max that might finish him and Chandler can probably land takedowns and pot shot effectively in round 2 as he slows well enough to still win it, by round 3 if Max doesn't get knocked out I think he would start to take over. 60/40 Chandler in 3 rounds 60/40 Max in 5.

6. Beneil Dariush, one of the other most winnable fights Dariushs gastank is a little suspect, his takedowns aren't that strong and he is a heavy handed southpaw with a big left hand and left leg but besides that he doesn't have much else standing. I'd favor Max 60/40

7. Rafael Fiziev, you're wrong, Fiziev has pretty damn big stopping power and he's by no means a small LW, the dude is the size if Melvin Guillard. In muay thai Fiziev was known for his big KO power in his hands and he has the cardio to go 3 rounds, the technical superiority, speed, defense and power advantage standing. I don't like this fight for Max, he's going to have to rely on his chin and hope Fiziev gasses something bad. 70/30 in 3 or 5 rounds for Fiziev

8. Gamrot, I think Gamrot can mix things up on the feet and scoring takedowns to secure rounds and outwork Max over 3 or 5 rounds, 70/30 Gamrot

9. Arman I think Arman Is a good enough striker with a speed and power advantage. His gas tank is good, he should be able to score takedowns and even if Max tries to keep Arman at the end if his punches Armans kicking game is too good. Arman 75/25

10. Damir, he's faster than Max, better boxing, defensively amazing, 4in reach advantage, great control of fights range and pace, strong cardio and slept on offensive wrestling Damir 80/20

Conor will never cut to 155lbs again unless it's a Floyd type fight so no one cares but I'd favor Max over Conor nowadays. I think Guram and Jalin would be trouble for Max too, those guys are way bigger, hit harder, fight better long than Max does. I have Max losing to a handful of Bellator LWs. I actually think Max has interesting fights at 145lbs at this point, Yair is nothing special and he struggled in that one and Max got melted by Volk in their 3rd fight, I don't think it's as simple as Volk and Yair improved a ton, I think Max is slowing down some.

 

[Aurelian]

I think Max is pretty much done as a title contender. He's made a lot of money and has already been a champion. I would love to be wrong though and he gets a run going.

 

[RightToBareKnuckles]

I think he is too weak in 155, he can crack top 10, but it's gonna be hard for him to reach the title. Too many talented guys in 155, who also seem to be stronger than Max.

Can someone explain though why Holloway is very skinny but very heavy? I saw some thread discussing walk around weight of fighters the other day, and Max is heavier than Dustin, he is almost as heavy as Khabib iirc.

yeah people's bodies/weight cuts are weird. Holloway must have dense bones or something, because apparently he has a tough cut to 145, but Edson Barboza seems to be doing fine moving from 155 to 145 even though he's more muscular

 

[PEDRO IVO RUSSO MIRANDA]

Max present and future is to be the whittaker of featherweigths

 

[Liverkick-king56]

Max seems to fall in love with his hands too much
Back when he was beating Swanson,Pettis and Stephans he used plenty of kicks and elbows and had a very effective clinch. If he doesn't reinvent himself I think he starts dropping decisions to guys who are able to put smart gameplans together against him. Fight him like people have been fighting the Diaz brothers. Guys like Emmet will start beating Holloway by just avoiding the hands and making fights ugly.

Holloway reminds me of Jake Ellenburger and Travis Browne when they dropped their effective styles to use a more plodding "proper" style backed behind a jab that was useless... Holloway can actually jab with the best jabs but he's still neglecting the rest of what made him elite

 

[HuskySamoan]

yeah people's bodies/weight cuts are weird. Holloway must have dense bones or something, because apparently he has a tough cut to 145, but Edson Barboza seems to be doing fine moving from 155 to 145 even though he's more muscular

One thing that factors in when considering people's weights is torso length vs leg length. Bone density cannot play that big a part in weight disparities unless some fighters have hollow bird bones haha. Think about it, some people have short legs and long torsos, torsos weigh way more, others have super long legs and short torsos. I have a long torso but I'm 5'11 so sometimes I sit down next to a 6'1 person and notice I'm slightly taller sitting than they are.

Besides that width of one's shoulders, back, chest, waist and core play a factor as do thickness. Also, of course leg size plays a factor since those are huge body parts. Look at Drew Dober one of the heaviest LWs the guy has a very thick and wide torso and big horse legs. Barboza is huge for 145 but he has a small waist and he's very thin, that's the other thing "muscular" often times some people just have really good muscle insertions and definition which gives off the appearance of big muscles but Barboza has tiny arms, a thin torso despite super developed ripped abs and his legs certainly aren't big. I don't think Barbozas dimensions would stack up vs a lot of guys despite how ripped he looks.

I'm sure bone density, muscle density play a small part in things as well but a very small one. Also some people genetically perform better at lower body fat percentages than others, cutting weight often has a lot to do with dehydration and not always burning fat, Barboza looks well below 10% body fat even in between fights and I bet he gets wicked low like 6-7% when making 145lbs.

 

[Lawrence]

1. Oliveira
2. Poirier
3. Gaethje
4. Islam
5. Chandler
6. Dariush
7. Fiziev
8. Gamrot
9. Arman
10. Damir

I'm not sure I like his chances vs anyone in the current top 10. I think he could maybe beat Chandler, Gaethje and Dariush but basically every single one of these guys is an uphill battle for Holloway where hed take a lot of damage. Holloway is a small 155er I don't care what anyone says about walk around weight, guys like Islam and Oliveira have similar frames but are much physically larger. Holloway doesn't bring a speed advantage up with him from 145, plenty of these guys are as fast or faster on the feet and Holloway lacks power. I think the wrestling of guys like Gamrot and Islam would be too much too, perhaps others as well.

I still think Max could do pretty well even though the division is at tough as it's ever been.

I see some parallels between Max and Nate Diaz. Neither are ever the faster fighter in a match. Neither are ever the harder hitter in a match. While Nate has a better ground game, Cowboy is the only fighter to fear taking Nate down.

Max may even have better cardio at 155, which is about the weight he is at in the middle of a camp... A little more muscle will give his high output more pop...

 

[HuskySamoan]

I still think Max could do pretty well even though the division is at tough as it's ever been.

I see some parallels between Max and Nate Diaz. Neither are ever the faster fighter in a match. Neither are ever the harder hitter in a match. While Nate has a better ground game, Cowboy is the only fighter to fear taking Nate down.

Max may even have better cardio at 155, which is about the weight he is at in the middle of a camp... A little more muscle will give his high output more pop...

I don't give a prime Nate much of a shot vs today's LWs either but I do agree that Holloway is similar to Nate in that he's insanely durable, has insane cardio, pressures guys and throws high volume. I think Max is quicker than Nate, has crisper striking than Nate and way better takedown defense. Nates definitely way longer, is a southpaw paw and has much better grappling off his back though. I think prime for prime at 155 I'd pick Holloway to beat Nate.

 

[LEWIS540]

Holloway is a small 155er I don't care what anyone says about walk around weight, guys like Islam and Oliveira have similar frames but are much physically larger.

You don’t care that factually he would not be a small LW, because, durr, I said so.

 

[Lawrence]

I don't give a prime Nate much of a shot vs today's LWs either but I do agree that Holloway is similar to Nate in that he's insanely durable, has insane cardio, pressures guys and throws high volume. I think Max is quicker than Nate, has crisper striking than Nate and way better takedown defense. Nates definitely way longer, is a southpaw paw and has much better grappling off his back though. I think prime for prime at 155 I'd pick Holloway to beat Nate.

I like the way you think. Somehow Max and Nate just seem to be similar to me... BTW That would be a great fight if Nate were a few years younger

Also agree that Nate would prolly not dominate against todays top ten... But the division was solid when Nate earned his shot, and with Max's name value and Dana's propensity to be "helpful" a Holloway win streak of a couple of fights might get him a shot at 155....

What a great division 155 is today... Max jumping in can only bring us great fights to watch.

 

[smiles mma]

To the top under the right circumstances

 

[RightToBareKnuckles]

One thing that factors in when considering people's weights is torso length vs leg length. Bone density cannot play that big a part in weight disparities unless some fighters have hollow bird bones haha. Think about it, some people have short legs and long torsos, torsos weigh way more, others have super long legs and short torsos. I have a long torso but I'm 5'11 so sometimes I sit down next to a 6'1 person and notice I'm slightly taller sitting than they are.

Besides that width of one's shoulders, back, chest, waist and core play a factor as do thickness. Also, of course leg size plays a factor since those are huge body parts. Look at Drew Dober one of the heaviest LWs the guy has a very thick and wide torso and big horse legs. Barboza is huge for 145 but he has a small waist and he's very thin, that's the other thing "muscular" often times some people just have really good muscle insertions and definition which gives off the appearance of big muscles but Barboza has tiny arms, a thin torso despite super developed ripped abs and his legs certainly aren't big. I don't think Barbozas dimensions would stack up vs a lot of guys despite how ripped he looks.

I'm sure bone density, muscle density play a small part in things as well but a very small one. Also some people genetically perform better at lower body fat percentages than others, cutting weight often has a lot to do with dehydration and not always burning fat, Barboza looks well below 10% body fat even in between fights and I bet he gets wicked low like 6-7% when making 145lbs.

good point about muscle insertions/definition being a bit deceptive. Dober's jaw probably weights 20 lbs alone

 

[Mesos]

Are there any news on Max, when he's gonna fight again?

He's lost three times to the current champion, 2 of which were decisive so I doubt he'll get the rematch no matter how dominant he is in other fights.
So, a move up to 155 makes sense. He's also getting older, so the weight cuts will only be harder from now on.
He already fought the number 1 contender at lw and it wasn't a bad performance at all.

If he moved up the right way, how far can he go in the lw divison?
Which are the favourable matchups for him and which are not?
Would you like him to stay at 145 or go to 155?

He doesn't have the power or physicality to hang with 155 guys. Max is better off staying at 145 hoping for Volk to lose the belt

 

[HuskySamoan]

good point about muscle insertions/definition being a bit deceptive. Dober's jaw probably weights 20 lbs alone

This was a good example, Joshua looks so much more muscular and he's 6'6 to Usyk's 6'3 yet there's only 20lbs between them but look at the chest and torso width, look at the torso thickness and length, the waists. You begin to see why the weight disparity isn't as big. Khabib was a good example of this, never muscle bound but Conor has a tiny narrow torso and Khabib was just a very broad and thick LW.

Khabib

Conor and Poirier

Conor has long arms and he has very developed arms and shoulders, it's why he's always flexing so he will look bigger but he was clearly smaller than Poirier too. Conor has solid thighs though.

 

[G10]

If he does indeed move up, I think him against RDA would be a good indicator on how he'd do. Don't put him against someone like Gaethje, I think that's a bad match up for him style wise. Plus, he needs to put some muscle on his skinny frame in he wants to go up.

This. I think Max could do very well and 155lbs, and maybe even become champ, but he needs to get his body right for the division first. That was probably a big reason for why he lost to Porrier for the interim belt.

 

[theTKDguy]

He's still very good but his days as a contender are most likely over. Topuria, evloev, mitchell are the new breed

 

[RockyLockridge]

If he does indeed move up, I think him against RDA would be a good indicator on how he'd do. Don't put him against someone like Gaethje, I think that's a bad match up for him style wise. Plus, he needs to put some muscle on his skinny frame in he wants to go up.

I'd love to see max vs gaethje

 

[infinite666]

Are there any news on Max, when he's gonna fight again?

He's lost three times to the current champion, 2 of which were decisive so I doubt he'll get the rematch no matter how dominant he is in other fights.
So, a move up to 155 makes sense. He's also getting older, so the weight cuts will only be harder from now on.
He already fought the number 1 contender at lw and it wasn't a bad performance at all.

If he moved up the right way, how far can he go in the lw divison?
Which are the favourable matchups for him and which are not?
Would you like him to stay at 145 or go to 155?

max is done he will never win again

 

[skylolow]

I know the guy is young but he does have 30 pro fights on his body already and a lot of 5 rounders recently. The dude has spent 25 mins in the cage 7 times since 2018. That is almost 3 hours of cage time. Some of those were pretty good wars also.

With the way he talks about health and not sparring anymore it's apparent he isn't a guy that is going to do this until he 40 or anything. I'd say he should just chase big payday fights at whatever weight class. Maybe that is moving to 155 and fighting the Poirer's and Chandler's of the world. Maybe work a fight with Conor at catchweight of 160lbs or something.