Law Matt Gaetz to become Attorney General

[terrapin]

1- I've read your posts. I'm not trying to to tear you down, I just insist that you are honest when you discuss religious issues. And you would be surprised at how versed I am about our faith.

2- First of all Moses and Elijah appeared to Christ - he didnt pray for them to intercede with God on his behalf.

Sencondly, the Bible says that Jesus is the only mediator between humans and God. It also prohibits inquiring of the dead.

3- Hail, Mary, full of grace,
the Lord is with thee.
Blessed art thou amongst women
and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus.
Holy Mary, Mother of God,
pray for us sinners,
now and at the hour of our death.
Amen.

^^That, my friend is a prayer andd asking Mary to intercede. Something the Bible says is a no no.

4- I pointed out you ridiculous claim that saints weren't being given that title by people that protected kiddie diddlers was wrong. Just as others did. Then you started talking about higher spirituality - which isn't the defining attribute o become a saint.

5- I read your post. You post a wall of text that doesn't really address anything and you continually deny that the Pope decides who is or isn't a saint.

Plus I've repeatedly asked you to start a thread for this topic so we aren't derailing the thread. So, I won't reply to any more religious posts in this thread.

You're being dishonest again intentionally. If you're going to insist on a definition of the word prayer that Catholics don't use, that's a kind of lying obviously. Obviously you have to come to a common understanding of terms in order to discuss things. It's one of the most basic agreements that you make when discussing topics. The fact that you can't or won't make those basic agreements means you've never engaged an intellectual discussion honestly in your entire life. I mean it's the first thing anybody does man and you won't do it....

It's really hard to understand why you'd want to continually misunderstand my words on purpose so that you can slander and lie instead.

I don't know how many times I can tell you that when Jesus spoke to Moses and Elijah, the Catholics call that prayer.... Prayer is speaking to a person in the body of Christ who has passed on.

This is such a simple concept. I wonder why you can't accept it?

There are saints throughout the history of the Christian church. Anyone ignorant bigoted or dishonest enough to pretend that every one of them was made by a phile is lying.

I don't know why you would defend such despicable slander.

You are polluting this thread by continuing to speak about the issue and lying about my positions.... and you could back out instead of telling me to---- pot meat kettle.

One of the measures of a saint is that after death they continue to work to serve humanity and perform miracles.... Mary seems to be the greatest of all the saints in that she works countless miracles across the globe. I have experienced her intercession myself directly. It's kind of the entire point of Christianity is to produce saints who are so profoundly holy that they serve humanity throughout their entire existence.

If you think it's wrong to speak to her and ask for help, then I think you don't know what you're talking about and have no idea what Christ intends to produce in humanity.

Mary is the second fruits of the Gospel showing what we can all become.

But you've been so disingenuous in every single one of your replies. You're not even trying to be friendly. You're not even trying to be intellectually honest. You're not even trying to have an honest discussion, so why would you try here?

I think you don't know enough about Christianity or Catholicism to discuss it and that's why you continually misrepresent my positions instead.

You won't address honestly the Catholic definition of the word prayer because your entire bigoted position insists on the dishonesty and that's slandering which is one of the ten commandments.

 

[jefferz]

Yes he did. He said it was the exact same people and when I asked him to clarify he doubled down.

That's literally the only thing I've been defending this whole time that it's not the exact same people and to pretend so is a kind of slanderous lie against the church.

You had how many posts now, and still refuse to admit the Pope that has the final say on who becomes a Saint, and those same Pope’s that have covered up the sexual abuse of children are the same people.
You've even been given examples of different Popes covering up the sexual abuse of children.
But you still refuse to admit it.

Look, we get it, you’re Catholic. But denying shit like this is what led to the widespread sexual abuse of children. Y’all stuck your fingers in your ears and covered your eyes while children continued to get sexually abused.
And sadly, it’s going to continue because ya’ll keep enabling the actions of the church covering up the sexual abuse of children.

Well, if the Catholic Church stopped fucking little kids, and covering it up, people wouldn’t slander the church.

 

[terrapin]

You had how many posts now, and still refuse to admit the Pope that has the final say on who becomes a Saint, and those same Pope’s that have covered up the sexual abuse of children are the same people.
You've even been given examples of different Popes covering up the sexual abuse of children.
But you still refuse to admit it.

Look, we get it, you’re Catholic. But denying shit like this is what led to the widespread sexual abuse of children. Y’all stuck your fingers in your ears and covered your eyes while children continued to get sexually abused.
And sadly, it’s going to continue because ya’ll keep enabling the actions of the church covering up the sexual abuse of children.

Well, if the Catholic Church stopped fucking little kids, and covering it up, people wouldn’t slander the church.

That's not what has been said. Someone said specifically that all the saints were made by phile people all made by the SAME people. I think it was you but I happened to be on vacation and not going to do a deep dive to prove it . Whoever it was did not signify a specific Pope like Pope Francis only or any specific saints. What just don't do the They just made a generalized statement.

You had many posts to clarify that end didn't.

So you admit you have been slandering and lying. That's good. You can do that if you want, but it'll be slandering in line.

While, there have been many terrible acts committed by the Catholic church. They are also one of the only two Christian churches that can consistently produce saints across all generations and all personality types. My point is that it would be a massive loss to lose that wisdom.


My position is really simple. The people who were involved in covering up philes should be in prison. The harshest possible punishments should be muted upon them

And at the same time, we should not lose the incredible wisdom that the secular world has no knowledge whatsoever of on how to produce saints consistently across generations.

 

[PainIsLIfe]

You're being dishonest again intentionally. If you're going to insist on a definition of the word prayer that Catholics don't use, that's a kind of lying obviously. Obviously you have to come to a common understanding of terms in order to discuss things. It's one of the most basic agreements that you make when discussing topics. The fact that you can't or won't make those basic agreements means you've never engaged an intellectual discussion honestly in your entire life. I mean it's the first thing anybody does man and you won't do it....

It's really hard to understand why you'd want to continually misunderstand my words on purpose so that you can slander and lie instead.

I don't know how many times I can tell you that when Jesus spoke to Moses and Elijah, the Catholics call that prayer.... Prayer is speaking to a person in the body of Christ who has passed on.

This is such a simple concept. I wonder why you can't accept it?

There are saints throughout the history of the Christian church. Anyone ignorant bigoted or dishonest enough to pretend that every one of them was made by a phile is lying.

I don't know why you would defend such despicable slander.

You are polluting this thread by continuing to speak about the issue and lying about my positions.... and you could back out instead of telling me to---- pot meat kettle.

One of the measures of a saint is that after death they continue to work to serve humanity and perform miracles.... Mary seems to be the greatest of all the saints in that she works countless miracles across the globe. I have experienced her intercession myself directly. It's kind of the entire point of Christianity is to produce saints who are so profoundly holy that they serve humanity throughout their entire existence.

If you think it's wrong to speak to her and ask for help, then I think you don't know what you're talking about and have no idea what Christ intends to produce in humanity.

Mary is the second fruits of the Gospel showing what we can all become.

But you've been so disingenuous in every single one of your replies. You're not even trying to be friendly. You're not even trying to be intellectually honest. You're not even trying to have an honest discussion, so why would you try here?

I think you don't know enough about Christianity or Catholicism to discuss it and that's why you continually misrepresent my positions instead.

You won't address honestly the Catholic definition of the word prayer because your entire bigoted position insists on the dishonesty and that's slandering which is one of the ten commandments.

I think you're the one who hasn't read anything that I've written, so I'm going to cut this into 3 simple statements:

1- The Bible clearly says that Christ is the only mediator between man and God.

The Bible also says not to inquire of the dead.

So 'Hail Mary' contradicts what the Bible teaches; regardless of how you want to define prayer.



2- being super spiritually close to God doesn't make one a saint according to the Catholic church.




3- Some popes have covered up sexual abuse in the church. The pope has the final say on who is or isnt a saint.



Now, unless you want to address those 3 statements (in an honest manner) you are the one ignoring what has been posted.

 

[jefferz]

That's not what has been said. Someone said specifically that all the saints were made by phile people all made by the SAME people. I think it was you but I happened to be on vacation and not going to do a deep dive to prove it . Whoever it was did not signify a specific Pope like Pope Francis only or any specific saints. What just don't do the They just made a generalized statement.

You had many posts to clarify that end didn't.

So you admit you have been slandering and lying. That's good. You can do that if you want, but it'll be slandering in line.

While, there have been many terrible acts committed by the Catholic church. They are also one of the only two Christian churches that can consistently produce saints across all generations and all personality types. My point is that it would be a massive loss to lose that wisdom.


My position is really simple. The people who were involved in covering up philes should be in prison. The harshest possible punishments should be muted upon them

And at the same time, we should not lose the incredible wisdom that the secular world has no knowledge whatsoever of on how to produce saints consistently across generations.

How about this.
Did John Paul II cover up the sexual abuse of children? Yes or no.
Was John Paul II a Pope? Yes or no.
Did John Paul II have the final say on someone becoming a Saint? Yes or no.

 

[Loiosh]

I suppose if Joe Morrisey can be elected after sexing a minor then Gaetz can be elected again as well.

Beyond me, but...

South gonna South.

 

[Loiosh]

There should be a bi partisan effort to force Matt ,MTG and the squad out of government . All dumb worthless idiots

Why The Squad?

Do you just hate elected officials that care about their constituents?

 

[terrapin]

I think you're the one who hasn't read anything that I've written, so I'm going to cut this into 3 simple statements:

1- The Bible clearly says that Christ is the only mediator between man and God.

The Bible also says not to inquire of the dead.

So 'Hail Mary' contradicts what the Bible teaches; regardless of how you want to define prayer.



2- being super spiritually close to God doesn't make one a saint according to the Catholic church.




3- Some popes have covered up sexual abuse in the church. The pope has the final say on who is or isnt a saint.



Now, unless you want to address those 3 statements (in an honest manner) you are the one ignoring what has been posted.

You need to address that you continue to insist on a definition of the word prayer that the Catholic church doesn't hold. We cannot have an honest discussion if you are insisting on a definition that the Catholic church does not hold.

If you aren't going to admit to that, you are only discussing in bad faith.

Those who have passed on are living in Christ. They are not dead. They are alive. They have eternal life Even that's why Jesus said God is not a god of the dead but a god of the living.




So why do you insist on lying about our use of the word prayer when it's just talking to living members of the body of Christ Left.

Being exceptionally spiritual is the only way to become a saint actually and you must just have literally no idea what you're talking about to state otherwise. There are other requirements but they come from being deeply spiritual person.

My dispute was against a poster who said the same people that are philes are the same people that are making the saints and would not allow for a distinction that most of the time they're good holy people and not better files or people who cover up philia.

A lack of nuance is what I'm arguing against.

 

[terrapin]

How about this.
Did John Paul II cover up the sexual abuse of children? Yes or no.
Was John Paul II a Pope? Yes or no.
Did John Paul II have the final say on someone becoming a Saint? Yes or no.

John Paul is one specific instance and that's not my dispute at all. I want everyone who covered up in philia to be in prison.

As you know very well, my dispute has always been against one thing and that's trying to castigate the entire Catholic church as if they're all philia supporters and cover up philia and those are the exact same people making the saints which is a direct lie and an attempt to slander a billion people because of a tiny fraction of people who committed crimes.

 

[Fox by the Sea]

first and last page of this thread are not at all similar.

 

[terrapin]

You had how many posts now, and still refuse to admit the Pope that has the final say on who becomes a Saint, and those same Pope’s that have covered up the sexual abuse of children are the same people.
You've even been given examples of different Popes covering up the sexual abuse of children.
But you still refuse to admit it.

Look, we get it, you’re Catholic. But denying shit like this is what led to the widespread sexual abuse of children. Y’all stuck your fingers in your ears and covered your eyes while children continued to get sexually abused.
And sadly, it’s going to continue because ya’ll keep enabling the actions of the church covering up the sexual abuse of children.

Well, if the Catholic Church stopped fucking little kids, and covering it up, people wouldn’t slander the church.

It's because you're shifting the goal posts dishonestly that I'm not going to get cornered and pretend I finally admitted something that you've just changed the subject to.

The argument I am making is that it is an absolute lie that the same people that cover up philia in the church are the same people that make sense.

It is only true that some specific people have covered up philia and that's a very different statement.

I have never on this forum ever done anything but condemn with absolutey vehemently anyone that was involved in that terrible profoundly evil and despicable scandal.

You just came in trying to pretend it was everyone and now are lying and trying to pretend you never said that.

 

[jefferz]

John Paul is one specific instance and that's not my dispute at all. I want everyone who covered up in philia to be in prison.

As you know very well, my dispute has always been against one thing and that's trying to castigate the entire Catholic church as if they're all philia supporters and cover up philia and those are the exact same people making the saints which is a direct lie and an attempt to slander a billion people because of a tiny fraction of people who committed crimes.

Yes, I know very well that you created that argument in your head, and have spent a bunch of posts spouting nonsense about the argument you made up.

I highly suggest you go back and read the thread.

 

[PainIsLIfe]

South gonna South.

Well technically VA is southerner, but not really southern.

 

[Andy Capp]

Here is a lawyer that went through the Congressional Ethics Committee report and the witnesses and is sharing how the case was based on lies and why the DOJ wouldn't touch the case. Now a man claimed to have been at the party has his lawyers writing congress to have the report amended as it is based on lies about him and he can prove it. Here are the 3 lies in the report.

1. Mr. Dorworth nor Mr. Gaetz invited anyone to the home on July 15th for a party as claimed in the report.
2. Gaetz was not present and never signed in at the gate log on July 15th as claimed in the report.
3. Mr. Dorwoth was not at the home for a party on July 15th as claimed in the report.
4. The committee refused to follow basic rules for evidence.

Quite the hill to die on.

 

[Andy Capp]

That's not what has been said. Someone said specifically that all the saints were made by phile people all made by the SAME people. I think it was you but I happened to be on vacation and not going to do a deep dive to prove it . Whoever it was did not signify a specific Pope like Pope Francis only or any specific saints. What just don't do the They just made a generalized statement.

You had many posts to clarify that end didn't.

So you admit you have been slandering and lying. That's good. You can do that if you want, but it'll be slandering in line.

While, there have been many terrible acts committed by the Catholic church. They are also one of the only two Christian churches that can consistently produce saints across all generations and all personality types. My point is that it would be a massive loss to lose that wisdom.


My position is really simple. The people who were involved in covering up philes should be in prison. The harshest possible punishments should be muted upon them

And at the same time, we should not lose the incredible wisdom that the secular world has no knowledge whatsoever of on how to produce saints consistently across generations.

No it's literally what was said and that's why I disputed it because it's so stupid on its face.

I said, show me.

 

[cincymma79]

What ever happened to character and integrity? If you think this type of person is fit for office you must not mind grift. Coked out and banging hookers is just a relaxing way to spend the weekend away from the family.

How about hiring this guy to work for you, would you trust him to manage your business? Do you think the customers would be able to get a drink or would he be banging the cocktail waitresses two at a time?

Just to be clear using cocaine is now the bar for public office? What what does that start?

 

[terrapin]

I said, show me.

Yes, I know very well that you created that argument in your head, and have spent a bunch of posts spouting nonsense about the argument you made up.

I highly suggest you go back and read the thread.

If you are not arguing that every single saint has been made by a phile or a person who covered up philia then we have no argument.

But you could have made that clear many posts ago and you know it.

 

[PainIsLIfe]

You need to address that you continue to insist on a definition of the word prayer that the Catholic church doesn't hold. We cannot have an honest discussion if you are insisting on a definition that the Catholic church does not hold.

If you aren't going to admit to that, you are only discussing in bad faith.

1- Those who have passed on are living in Christ. They are not dead. They are alive. They have eternal life Even that's why Jesus said God is not a god of the dead but a god of the living.




So why do you insist on lying about our use of the word prayer when it's just talking to living members of the body of Christ Left.

2- Being exceptionally spiritual is the only way to become a saint actually and you must just have literally no idea what you're talking about to state otherwise. There are other requirements but they come from being deeply spiritual pers

3- My dispute was against a poster who said the same people that are philes are the same people that are making the saints and would not allow for a distinction that most of the time they're good holy people and not better files or people who cover up philia.

A lack of nuance is what I'm arguing against.

Again, I'm going to break this down for you to follow.

1- Your "talking" to Mary is forbiden in the Bible, but even if I allow that Mary is alive in the body of Christ....

The Bible also says that only Jesus can intercede, so asking Mary to "pray for us sinners now and in death" is also a no no.



2- that is simply false, they must be martyrs or perform a miracle (2 actually).


3- he said the same people deciding sainthood are the same people covering for s - you said that Jesus created the criteria. He's right; Cardinals and the Popes make that decision and many have also covered up sexual abuse. Oh, and Jesus never gave qualifications to be venerated - if he had her would have venerated John the Baptist himself.



None of that is to say that your faith is void of merit. But, many spiritual leaders (of many denominations) have fallen short of the offices they hold.

 

[PainIsLIfe]

Just to be clear using cocaine is now the bar for public office? What what does that start?

I dont know where the bar is, but certainly snorting coke off an underaged hooker's ass is below the bar. Especially if you want to be AG.

 

[terrapin]

Again, I'm going to break this down for you to follow.

1- Your "talking" to Mary is forbiden in the Bible, but even if I allow that Mary is alive in the body of Christ....

The Bible also says that only Jesus can intercede, so asking Mary to "pray for us sinners now and in death" is also a no no.



2- that is simply false, they must be martyrs or perform a miracle (2 actually).


3- he said the same people deciding sainthood are the same people covering for s - you said that Jesus created the criteria. He's right; Cardinals and the Popes make that decision and many have also covered up sexual abuse. Oh, and Jesus never gave qualifications to be venerated - if he had her would have venerated John the Baptist himself.



None of that is to say that your faith is void of merit. But, many spiritual leaders (of many denominations) have fallen short of the offices they hold.

No, it isn't forbidden in the Bible. It's forbidden if you think she's dead but she's not dead she's living. Living members of the body of Christ can communicate with living members of the body of Christ.

What is condemned is occultism which is something completely different and actually is never someone communicating with a the dead. It's actually somebody communicating with a demon pretending to be Dead.

That's a very important distinction to make.

Mary can ntercede and so can Angels which happens all the time the way in the Bible and they all do it on behalf of Christ. Christ takes saints and uses them to benefit humanity. They do not act in their own power or in their own authority, but only in the power of Christ.

It's exactly like it is down here on Earth, a preacher preaches in the name of Christ and the preacher has no power of his or her own. They only have the power of Christ.

That does not change when that priest or preacher or angel or Saint becomes a living member of the body of Christ on the other side.


Cardinals and popes formulated the criteria based on jesus's teachings, specifically the ascent of peace, joy and love and ascent of faith, hope and charity, and the stages of spirituality laid out by Jesus Christ himself in the beatitudes, which are our very best example of the specific stages one must go through to become a saint and to become extremely holy.

You would know all of this if you had read any of the extra biblical literature that came alongside and was formed alongside of the gospels and letters.

None of this literature was ever taken separately. It was all revered and read in all of the early church.... only until Luther was that changed and it's a heresy.

You believe in Sola Scripture even though you've never heard of that term and it's an indefensible position.

Show me one place in the Bible where it says you can only read the Bible for information about salvation, information about Jesus, and. information about spirituality.


You won't and you won't even address it, which has been your game all through this conversation along with playing a semantics game and being unwilling to engage in good faith discussion.