International Massive Protests Erupt In Cuba As Citizens Demand End To Communist Dictatorship: ‘We Want Freedom!’

[Rod1]

U.S. trade embargo has cost Cuba $130 billion, U.N. says

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...-cost-cuba-130-billion-u-n-says-idUSKBN1IA00T

And obviously this only started to really matter after the fall of the Soviet Union. So 130 billion in 27 years.

Absolutely criminal on the part of the US.

“We evaluate it every year as an economic commission and we know that this blockade costs the Cuban people more than $130 billion at current prices and has left an indelible mark on its economic structure,” she said, without detailing how the organization came to that estimate.

<puh-lease75>


$130 billion over nearly six decades,coming up with the same estimate as the island’s communist government.

 

[Rod1]

The leaders who organised the referendum in Catalonia were only released after 3 years in prison a few weeks ago yet the the EU who remained silent on that are now calling for American paid oppositions leaders in Cuba to be released. Hypocrites. The Cuban authorities should plant some Lego capital buildings in the organisers homes, the media would be singing a different tunes then

Yes, wanting unilateral secession is the same as wanting to elect your own leaders.

 

[Snubnoze707]

Even if you would be against any intervention, don’t tell me you oppose people having the chance to decide their own fate and representation instead of living in a totalitarian slave plantation toiling for pennies for the small rich elite that has been ruling with violent suppression unchanged for decades?

An enormous majority of the people in the streets are in favor of the regime not opposing it. Don't fall for the propaganda.

 

[SanchoMF]

An enormous majority of the people in the streets are in favor of the regime not opposing it. Don't fall for the propaganda.

Nope. They're against their government and for a good reason unless you're saying that they like being enslaved, ripped of and brutalised by the elite in power?

 

[Possum Jenkins]

“We evaluate it every year as an economic commission and we know that this blockade costs the Cuban people more than $130 billion at current prices and has left an indelible mark on its economic structure,” she said, without detailing how the organization came to that estimate.

<puh-lease75>


$130 billion over nearly six decades,coming up with the same estimate as the island’s communist government.

Her qualifications are impeccable:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alicia_Bárcena_Ibarra

The agency is also extremely mainstream and Western-friendly:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Economic_Commission_for_Latin_America_and_the_Caribbean

But even if they did detail how they came up with those figures, you'd question those too. The Cuban government cooks the books and fibs figures all the time so no matter what they come up, you'll see it as bullshit.

We know that when it comes to Cuba for you, it's heads I win, tails you lose.

 

[JoshTehV]

@Social Warlord what do you think of this?

 

[Rod1]

Her qualifications are impeccable:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alicia_Bárcena_Ibarra

The agency is also extremely mainstream and Western-friendly:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Economic_Commission_for_Latin_America_and_the_Caribbean

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority

But even if they did detail how they came up with those figures, you'd question those too. The Cuban government cooks the books and fibs figures all the time so no matter what they come up, you'll see it as bullshit.

What the standard for scientific research? PEER REVIEW.

We know that when it comes to Cuba for you, it's heads I win, tails you lose.

This is so fucking ironic.

Just to be clear, you are accusing me of being biased because im asking for evidence.

 

[Rod1]

An enormous majority of the people in the streets are in favor of the regime not opposing it. Don't fall for the propaganda.

Because they are paid by the regime, colectivos were invented by Cuba in the first place.

 

[Islam Imamate]

And in the states we have people begging for the government to take our freedom away.

They're partly protesting for vaccines. You know, the thing that Americans take for granted and some of whom stupidly resist taking. So yes please do look at the struggle of the Cuban people and appreciate the fact that we have access to vaccination.

 

[Islam Imamate]

How about we import the Cubans and export the northwest that wants communism. Problems solved

Only on the condition that you don't complain about having to learn Spanish. Get enough Cubans in a given area and they'll never speak English.

 

[Possum Jenkins]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority

Nope, an appeal to authority would apply if we were discussing abstract concepts. Like if I said that socialism/capitalism/democracy/whatever is great because all these smart people say so.

But we're discussing something concrete- how much did the US blockade on Cuba cost? In this case, citing a study by a prestigious institution is a valid argument. If you have a study by a similar institution, go ahead and share

(BTW, I'm familiar with the US Chamber of Commerce's estimate as well as the Cuban government's estimates)

What the standard for scientific research? PEER REVIEW.

Guess it's a good thing we're not in an academic conference but on Sherdog, huh?

The best I can come up with: A study by a UN agency

The best you can come up with: Nah, I don't think so

This is so fucking ironic.

Just to be clear, you are accusing me of being biased because im asking for evidence.

I'm accusing you of being astonishingly obtuse on this subject.

No amount of evidence will be good enough. A UN study isn't good enough. And based on our past conversations, I'm speculating that an academic paper wouldn't be good enough either because they'll use Cuban numbers and you don't trust those.

 

[Rod1]

Nope, an appeal to authority would apply if we were discussing abstract concepts. Like if I said that socialism/capitalism/democracy/whatever is great because all these smart people say so.

You are saying that a particular person statement is true because of her credentials and therefore there is no need for any evidence.

But we're discussing something concrete- how much did the US blockade on Cuba cost? In this case, citing a study by a prestigious institution is a valid argument. If you have a study by a similar institution, go ahead and share

You are not citing any study, neither was she.

(BTW, I'm familiar with the US Chamber of Commerce's estimate as well as the Cuban government's estimates)

Yet you refuse to put these studies forward.

Guess it's a good thing we're not in an academic conference but on Sherdog, huh?

Exactly, and that which is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

The best I can come up with: A study by a UN agency

You didnt cited any study whatsoever you cited a newspiece of someone who works in the UN speaking in Cuba and citing a figure from the Cuban government without any evidence to back it up.

I'm accusing you of being astonishingly obtuse on this subject.

Asking for evidence isnt being obtuse, i specifically requested evidence because i know she is speaking out of her ass, as she tends to do a lot of times.

The reason why its impossible to pinpoint the cost of sanctions is because there isnt simply any economic data coming out of Cuba, Cuba isnt part of the IMF or the World Bank or any other world organization where you need to report data and thus people can come out with their independent studies.

No amount of evidence will be good enough.

So you provide none, how convenient.

A UN study isn't good enough.

You didnt cited a UN study.

And based on our past conversations, I'm speculating that an academic paper wouldn't be good enough either because they'll use Cuban numbers and you don't trust those.

Is the paper peer reviewd and independently confirmed?

 

[nhbbear]

Only on the condition that you don't complain about having to learn Spanish. Get enough Cubans in a given area and they'll never speak English.

I speak a little. I would still prefer migrants to the scum that hate this country

 

[Possum Jenkins]

The reason why its impossible to pinpoint the cost of sanctions is because there isnt simply any economic data coming out of Cuba, Cuba isnt part of the IMF or the World Bank or any other world organization where you need to report data and thus people can come out with their independent studies.

Right, when there are economic numbers you don't like: There's no reliable data coming out of Cuba! There's just no way to know!

But when you see numbers about their low GDP, low human development index, low productivity, or anything negative about Cuba: Look at how miserable life in Cuba is!

Rod, you're the anti-vaxxer of the Cuba issue. You set up a standard that's pretty much impossible to meet when the result is something you don't like. When the result is something you DO like, you get far less critical.

For me, if a prestigious agency within the UN cites it, I'll trust them. For you, it isn't (unless they say that the embargo cost them $500), so there's really not a lot more to discuss.

 

[Bargey]

Someone tell AOC and all the clowns that voted for her that this is her idea of a country to aspire towards

 

[Rod1]

Right, when there are economic numbers you don't like: There's no reliable data coming out of Cuba! There's just no way to know!

So we are going to take the word of dictatorships at face value now?

But when you see numbers about their low GDP, low human development index, low productivity, or anything negative about Cuba: Look at how miserable life in Cuba is!

Except we dont know any of that data either and you wont see me quoting any specific data that we dont have.


What we do have is for example prices in government owned stores and wages of different Cuban jobs as those are public.

No country where a professional is making roughly $90 dollars a month isnt miserable.

Rod, you're the anti-vaxxer of the Cuba issue. You set up a standard that's pretty much impossible to meet when the result is something you don't like. When the result is something you DO like, you get far less critical.

Right, im the anti-vaxxer because i refuse to accept a dictatorship data at facevalue.

For me, if a prestigious agency within the UN cites it, I'll trust them.

Alicia Barcena is anything but prestigious man, she has said a lot of stupid things before and she isnt even an economist.

[For you, it isn't (unless they say that the embargo cost them $500), so there's really not a lot more to discuss.

Yes, ill take the Cuban government word as the gold standard, i wonder why Cubans are so pissed for not having vaccines when they have less than 2 thousand deaths, its the best response in the world, along with Venezuela, China and North Korea, there are no deaths there and i trust their governments 100%.

 

[Papi Chulo]

 

[Social Warlord]

@Social Warlord what do you think of this?

I think it's great that Cubans are protesting communism.

It's a real shame they were tricked into registering their guns which were confiscated afterwards.

Cuba gives its citizens 2 months to register guns | The Seattle Times
Cubans were encouraged to register any weapons they owned in the years after Fidel Castro and his band of rebels toppled dictator Fulgencio Batista on Jan. 1, 1959. But later authorities used a list of those who had sought licenses to go door-to-door and encourage them to turn over their firearms – even antiques considered family heirlooms.


Meanwhile Canada is falling into the same trap



John Robson: While Cubans are seeking liberty, Canadians are eroding theirs | National Post

Trudeau's tribute to Fidel Castro raises eyebrows | CNN
Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau's tribute complimenting Fidel Castro as "remarkable" and a "larger than life leader who served his people" drew criticism and derision.

 

[giusti825]

So socialism/communism.

Embargos / sanctions

 

[RogerB08]

They want democracy, not capitalism.