Mark Hamill Hates The Last Jedi

[Deleted member 110072]

Not necessarily though. I loved Get Out and some of it's themes went right over people's heads or were disingenuously oversimplified (It's bout racizm bruh) but it still worked as a weird comedy/horror mashup on surface level.

In general though you're right, movies who play it safe will often have a high tomatometer score (with most reviews being in the 7 or 8 territory). Wonder Woman is a good example, it was by no means a revolutionary movie but it managed to accomplish very well what it set out to do in the first place, be a solid comic booky adventure film. It was loved by very few but actively disliked by even fewer.

It's all good in my book, people just need to not freak out and go "omg Rotten Tomatoes says movie A is better than movie B".

It does I think help contribute to the increased blandening of mainstream cinema, I wouldn't go so far as to say few people are aiming at more than competence but I would say that ambition is clearly on the decline. In terms of RT score having an exceptional film doesn't really benefit you much but an ambitious film gone wrong has a higher risk of a low score.

Honestly it does kind of stand out for me that if I look though my favourite films from the last decade there really aren't many blockbusters there at all(Fury Road being the obvious one), that's not coming from someone who typically ignores the medium.

 

[Islam Imamate]

Where is it written that critics (top or not) are supposed to give less praise than general audiences? People have been freaking out about the difference in scores for TLJ but it's not that uncommon, and it happens in both directions (Netflix's Bright was eviscerated by critics and well-received by audiences). We don't have to feel puzzled by it, all it takes is reading some of those fresh reviews and see what critics liked about it.

It's been a while since I've read anything about the movie but I remember critics loving the constant subversion of expectations (even if it was for it's own sake), some of the themes introduced, the whole "presenting Star Wars to a new audience" stuff, diversity (shoehorned or not)... most of them seemed to not care about what the fans hated: how popular characters were handled, how the film fits within what was expected after The Force Awakens (or expected of any Star Wars film period), etc etc.

It should be noted that there's a notorious faceless hype machine working in Disney's favor (including Lucasfilm, Marvel, everything) where it's perceived as this benevolent force in entertainment and every single thing they put out is (or is expected to be) very good. The review baseline for them seems to be much much higher than for anyone else for whatever reason.

Your last paragraph is really my gripe here, Disney seems to get it too easy from the critics and that's my issue. I do expect that the critics and audiences will diverge but to see the critics eat up a blockbuster and the audiences hate it is odd since its often the toehr way around with these kind of films.

 

[Madmick]

Not the greatest fan of Screen Junkies but this is a very good summary of what RT is and isn't:

Fine summary of the principles, but useless and irrelevant to the breakdown of integrity I've outlined. I understand how everything works, and I understand that it's entirely inexplicable within the context of the rating inflation that has taken place as the website has gained commercial influence over the course of its lifespan. The "passion index", for example, never had any bearing on this.

Don't really care to hear apologism for this blatantly corrupted resource which the film industry has exploited as a marketing device from someone whose commercial vitality & relevance is more robustly linked to it than any other resource (except YouTube, perhaps). Of course film critics want us to invest our faith in that website as it gains commercial traction. That increases the monetary value of their opinions to the movie studios.

This is a closed loop.

 

[cottagecheesefan]

I’m struggling to care about Star Wars and I never would have thought that was possible

same with me, and it is kind of sad. In addition to the movies, I played a lot of starwars games, including the knights of the old republic games (which have a TON of starwars back story lore), I listened to about 20 audiobooks/radio dramas, and read a ton of comics.

I even kind of enjoy the prequels.... but these recent 3 movies have been so fucking terrible. With this last one being the worst of any Starwars film.

 

[DM1982]

A lot of people my age group feel the same way, we waited 30 fucking years for the return of luke sky walker and we get this shit?

The prequels were bad enough, but shitting on Luke made it unbearable, it has even hurt my 4 yr olds love for starwars as his favorites are the originals too.

I have no desire for the new movie. It left nothing to draw you to the next one.

The rey bullshit, no luke, snokes gone. Wtf.

Kylo is not a real threatening bad guy, at least in most people’s eyes.

There is no main conflict to be worried about.

Are you gonna put your money where your mouth is, and boycott Disney SW movies now?

Ive objected to their treatment from the start and have ignored all their movies but Rogue One (which i liked) and not contributed to their BO numbers a bit.

And theyre not gonna get better: itll be more of the same.

My question goes to all the fans that hate Disney SW....

 

[90 50]

same with me, and it is kind of sad. In addition to the movies, I played a lot of starwars games, including the knights of the old republic games (which have a TON of starwars back story lore), I listened to about 20 audiobooks/radio dramas, and read a ton of comics.

I even kind of enjoy the prequels.... but these recent 3 movies have been so fucking terrible. With this last one being the worst of any Starwars film.

It’s not just that it was a bad film, it’s that It seems that Johnson purposely shit on the old sw characters we loved, and threw away all of abrams set up, just to say
“My dicks bigger than abrams, fuck him and the old fans”

That’s homestly how this film makes me feel. Like it’s a big fuck you to long term fans of the story

 

[90 50]

Are you gonna put your money where your mouth is, and boycott Disney SW movies now?

Ive objected to their treatment from the start and have ignored all their movies but Rogue One (which i liked) and not contributed to their BO numbers a bit.

And theyre not gonna get better: itll be more of the same.

My question goes to all the fans that hate Disney SW....

IM not gonna boycott per say the next film, while I have no draw or anticipation for the next one like I did after force awakens, there was a lot I disliked about it, and it’s not one of my favorites but it did keep me interested in what’s coming next.

How bad ass is Luke now, what has he learned
Who the fuck is rey, and why is the saber drawn to her and hearing obi wan talking in the dream sequence.

Is Finn force sensitive

Who the fuck is snoke?

None of that shit matters now and was totally shit on.

After the end of Jedi it’s like who gives a shit.

Snokes gone, rey can beat Kylo

Story over

My kid isn’t even hounding me asking when the new one is coming out.

If he asks me to take him I will, but we aren’t on the edge of our seats waiting.

I’ll go see Solo, but if they do give johnson his own trilogy still you can bet your ass I won’t go see those, or any other movie he ever does

FUCK THAT GUY

 

[Hidden_Hand]

Are you gonna put your money where your mouth is, and boycott Disney SW movies now?

Ive objected to their treatment from the start and have ignored all their movies but Rogue One (which i liked) and not contributed to their BO numbers a bit.

And theyre not gonna get better: itll be more of the same.

My question goes to all the fans that hate Disney SW....

I can only speak for myself but as a life long Star Wars fan, I will likely never go to the cinema to watch one again unless it gets crazy reviews. My interest in this new wave has gone to zero. Star Wars has been killed.

This reflects at the box office aswell from 2.06 Billion down to 1.3 billion GOOD

I'll stick with the expanded universe from now.

 

[90 50]

I can only speak for myself but as a life long Star Wars fan, I will likely never go to the cinema to watch one again unless it gets crazy reviews. My interest in this new wave has gone to zero. Star Wars has been killed.

This reflects at the box office aswell from 2.06 Billion down to 1.3 billion GOOD

I'll stick with the expanded universe from now.

I have hopes that Howard does a solid solo movie.

He’s longtime friends with Lucas, so I’m sure they’ve had talks with how a solo back story would be.

 

[Hidden_Hand]

I have hopes that Howard does a solid solo movie.

He’s longtime friends with Lucas, so I’m sure they’ve had talks with how a solo back story would be.

Aslong as that punk Rian Johnson never touches it again I am happy.

Guy trolled Star Wars fans to death.

Luke Skywalker and Yoda burning the Jedi scrolls...

I'm getting mad just thinking about it ffs

 

[KILL KILL]

The movie was not good. Mark Hamill is the man.

 

[MiniCraque]

Fine summary of the principles, but useless and irrelevant to the breakdown of integrity I've outlined. I understand how everything works, and I understand that it's entirely inexplicable within the context of the rating inflation that has taken place as the website has gained commercial influence over the course of its lifespan. The "passion index", for example, never had any bearing on this.

Don't really care to hear apologism for this blatantly corrupted resource which the film industry has exploited as a marketing device from someone whose commercial vitality & relevance is more robustly linked to it than any other resource (except YouTube, perhaps). Of course film critics want us to invest our faith in that website as it gains commercial traction. That increases the monetary value of their opinions to the movie studios.

This is a closed loop.

Surely contextualizing the way in which RT scores films would be entirely relevant to any discussion that involves their scoring, wouldn't it? Specially given that is demonstrates the lack of an individual effort by any single reviewer to prop up reviews.

That's the entire point of using an aggregator anyway. The only way to substantially inflate the score of any film would be to buy the opinion of nearly every critic (or at least of every critic that would've given you a sub-6.0 score if left unattended, assuming you could target those to begin with), or fudging the statistics from within (not possible since each review that makes up the tomatometer is visible).

What gives you the impression that RT is a "blatantly corrupted resource"? Like I said, it's pretty hard to conspire to inflate your score. The site's admins don't ban overly negative critics (at least not that I know of) and each review is individually submited by the critic, not selected by the site. Studios using the score as a marketing device only proves that the scores are influential, not that they're manipulated (in fact that is an incredible stretch). If that were the case, the opinion of Roger Ebert would also be a corrupted marketing device since I've since his quotes printed on a lot of DVD covers. It also goes both ways: for every Baby Driver that banked on it's tomatometer score pushed by early reviews, there's a Baywatch that bombed at the box office largely because of early reviews.

There's a lot to be said about RT scores creating unclear representations of the quality of films or TV shows (which is subjective anyway), but that is 100% due to the way people incorrectly look at their scores, which is what the video tries to address. I guess there's also a discussion to be hard about they way "fresh" and "certified fresh" labels are given, but I don't see any alternative sugestions and that is the way the site has been operating for more than a decade now.

 

[Deleted member 110072]

Again I think perhaps the most important point that video raises is that RT scores are more easily manipulated by hype/influence. You don't have to label a terrible film as great or vice versa all you have to do is label that mid level film fresh instead or rotten or vice versa.

Honestly I felt one of the most obvious examples was shown in a quick clip of that video in the recent Ghost in the Shell film, I wouldn't call that a classic but I do actually think its a significantly better film than something like The Last Jedi yet all of the whitewashing hype beforehand made sure you had reveiwers coming in looking to dislike it to jump on the bandwagon.

 

[JR478]

Can't blame him.

 

[OverCoronavirus Pressure]

I don't get why people like Rotten Tomatoes so much.

This film was not terrible.
But it wasn't great.
I'm absolutely done with nostalgia and my favorite franchises being exploited.
Fuck these remakes, reboots and sequels

 

[SSgt Dickweed]

Not the greatest fan of Screen Junkies but this is a very good summary of what RT is and isn't:

How about studios focus on making good movies instead of complaining how awful RT is? DC's Wonderwoman was it's highest rated in RT, it is also it's most profitable. Coincidence? NOT!

I agree with RT 90% of the time. Come at me, dickweeds.

 

[minute bull]

 

[Deleted member 110072]

Is that the same Yoda puppet as the originals? if it was then it looks like its warped with age as it really doesn't look it to me. Maybe its the lighting used or the operation but it looks far goofier.

Either way the film gets his personality totally wrong, for some reason they play him as the crazy Yoda act he puts on when we first see him in Empire that he uses to test Luke. The end result is he looks like an aged senile force ghost who destroys the Jedi temple in a fit of lunacy.

Yoda's real personally in Empire is...

 

[taurus]

Luke's portrayal was beyond retarded. From the first scene, he throws the lightsaber like he wants to make a scene, and it looks ridiculous. The "dirt of my shoulder" and some quotes he says, man, that's not Luke. And i don't consider myself as a huge fan of OT.

 

[Peteyandjia]

This is the part that frustrates me. I don't know how. I can't illustrate or explain the mechanism(s) by which they're accomplishing this, and normally I'm the first type to demand that (as of CT theorists).

All I have is a lack of blindness to math this fuzzy. It's my only evidence. The deviations are inexplicable. Occam's Razor: manipulation is the best remaining answer when all other possible answers are exhausted to explain it. Money is obviously the prime suspect. How they co-opted the sites remains a mystery to me.

I don't know the answer, but I do note that it happened right about the same time as IMDB's decades-long forums were suddenly wiped off the map, so that now, the banner-ads on there the movie studios are paying for - 'Go See THE LAST JEDI, The Greatest Thing EVAR!' - can no longer be refuted by a mob of criticism when you scroll down to the bottom of the page.

I don't know the whole story behind why RT critics' scores became suddenly useless, but I do think that is also a piece of the puzzle.