Crime Mango Molester's sentencing

[mkess101]

Worked for Trump didn't it? Just bitch and moan for four years about how the election was stolen and hope the news cycle is in your favor next time around. He even bungled the "red wave" in 2022 after losing in 2020 and yet the party doubled down on him. Why isn't that the lesson Democrats should learn from all this?

I never said they could only have noble intentions but to make the argument that they don't you would have to provide evidence which you haven't.

If anything I think the political motivation went in the opposite direction, the Feds were exceedingly lenient on Trump. Meanwhile Garland took no delays in appointing a special counsel to investigate Biden for the incident where he found classified documents in his home, an incident where Biden fully cooperated with authorities and where no wrongdoing was found but still ultimately led to a politically damaging report by Robert Hur.

So you do think it's possible that SOME % (even small) could be politically motivated? Because if you answer yes, we've wasted a lot of time here. And given your last two replies, it seems you're open to that possibility.

Where you're hung up is in that someone would need to provide you "evidence" that any of it was. But that's preposterous, because we can't read the minds of those involved. There's no onus on me to "prove" my belief that there was SOME level of politics involved. I'm not accusing them of breaking the law or any such thing. I'm simply claiming they're human and thus subject to human nature. If you were to tell me for example that you did believe that 0.0% was politically motivated, you ALSO wouldn't have a responsibility to provide "evidence" because that's just your opinion.

 

[mkess101]

This wasn’t some set of actions that happened without any knowledge of the public. It literally had to be investigated. Do you acknowledge that?

Again, if you have lots of evidence he committed a serious crime, the only reason not to prosecute is political.

Hand waving aside.

Some of it for sure. There are levels and degrees to which things are investigated and pursued. I'm absolutely not claiming that it was ALL (or even mostly) motivated by politics. I'm saying I believe SOME of it was. Too many charges, people commenting, and attention paid by people in positions of power who oppose him to be naive enough to think politics played NO role.

 

[Islam Imamate]

So you do think it's possible that SOME % (even small) could be politically motivated? Because if you answer yes, we've wasted a lot of time here. And given your last two replies, it seems you're open to that possibility.

Its theoretically possible. In practice I think the political motivation is precisely the opposite of what you're alleging here, that in fact the DOJ was exceedingly lenient on Trump to avoid the impression that they were politically motivated. The political motivation worked in Trump's favor, not against him. I point to how long it took for the cases against Trump to get moving while Garland immediately appointed a special counsel to look into Biden.

Where you're hung up is in that someone would need to provide you "evidence" that any of it was. But that's preposterous, because we can't read the minds of those involved. There's no onus on me to "prove" my belief that there was SOME level of politics involved. I'm not accusing them of breaking the law or any such think. I'm simply claiming they're human and thus subject to human nature. If you were to tell me for example that you did believe that 0.0% was politically motivated, you ALSO wouldn't have a responsibility to provide "evidence" because that's just your opinion.

I'm not asking you to read minds, what an absurd thing to say. I'm asking for one shred of evidence of this supposed political motivation you're insisting must exist due to human nature. If it indeed does exist you should be able to point to something but you can't despite all the posts you've made on the topic you haven't shown even the slightest indication that you're aware of even the most basic facts of the matter.

If anything you are telling me you can read minds given how confident you are that there was political motivation at play here. You want me to believe that your understanding of human nature gives you special insight into the way such people tick and that even in the absence of evidence this gut feeling of yours has value. But it doesn't, its completely worthless and its important people like you are told that.

If I'm going to have an opinion on something like this I'm either going to put some effort into acquainting myself with the relevant evidence, as I've tried to do in regards to the Jack Smith indictment and Jan 6th, or I'm going to give a tepid preliminary opinion that I'm willing to walk back in the face of evidence to the contrary. I'm not going to confidently throw out an opinion on something I'm completely ignorant of and then act indignant that people don't respect my clueless take like you do.

 

[mkess101]

Its theoretically possible. In practice I think the political motivation is precisely the opposite of what you're alleging here, that in fact the DOJ was exceedingly lenient on Trump to avoid the impression that they were politically motivated. The political motivation worked in Trump's favor, not against him. I point to how long it took for the cases against Trump to get moving while Garland immediately appointed a special counsel to look into Biden.

I'm not asking you to read minds, what an absurd thing to say. I'm asking for one shred of evidence of this supposed political motivation you're insisting must exist due to human nature. If it indeed does exist you should be able to point to something but you can't despite all the posts you've made on the topic you haven't shown even the slightest indication that you're aware of even the most basic facts of the matter.

If anything you are telling me you can read minds given how confident you are that there was political motivation at play here. You want me to believe that your understanding of human nature gives you special insight into the way such people tick and that even in the absence of evidence this gut feeling of yours has value. But it doesn't, its completely worthless and its important people like you are told that.

If I'm going to have an opinion on something like this I'm either going to put some effort into acquainting myself with the relevant evidence, as I've tried to do in regards to the Jack Smith indictment and Jan 6th, or I'm going to give a tepid preliminary opinion that I'm willing to walk back in the face of evidence to the contrary. I'm not going to confidently throw out an opinion on something I'm completely ignorant of and then act indignant that people don't respect my clueless take like you do.

You're stuck in this rut of thinking this is an all-or-nothing scenario when of course that's not what life is. Like...do I honestly have to tell you that human beings are complex and thus can have multiple motivations that propel their choices? My opinion IS tepid, that's what you (for some unknown reason--although I have some suspicions as to why) refuse to acknowledge. Yes, I think there was SOME level of political motivation. No, I don't know how much that drove it but I suspect it was a minor part of it. You don't think thats tepid LOLOL???
It's not some special insight that's unique to me, and I've never represented it as such.

Do you think I'm "indignant" that you (and you don't represent all "people" in case I need to let you know that) don't respect my opinion? You REALLY think that? I dont care in the least. I'll have a back and forth sure. But what on earth would make you believe I'm seeking your "respect"? Believe what you choose. Reply to me and engage, or don't.

 

[Islam Imamate]

You're stuck in this rut of thinking this is an all-or-nothing scenario when of course that's not what life is. Like...do I honestly have to tell you that human beings are complex and thus can have multiple motivations that propel their choices? My opinion IS tepid, that's what you (for some unknown reason--although I have some suspicions as to why) refuse to acknowledge. Yes, I think there was SOME level of political motivation. No, I don't know how much that drove it but I suspect it was a minor part of it. You don't think thats tepid LOLOL???
It's not some special insight that's unique to me, and I've never represented it as such.

Do you think I'm "indignant" that you (and you don't represent all "people" in case I need to let you know that) don't respect my opinion? You REALLY think that? I dont care in the least. I'll have a back and forth sure. But what on earth would make you believe I'm seeking your "respect"? Believe what you choose. Reply to me and engage, or don't.

I am engaging, you're the one who refuses to engage on the actual facts of the matter to instead talk in the most vague manner about anything other than the case at hand.

As I said there was possibly a political motivation but its the exact opposite motivation you're assuming, the DOJ was if anything exceedingly lenient on Trump for political reasons. Namely, that they knew rubes like you would perceive any legal action against Trump as being politically motivated. Its a huge mistake though because people like you are clueless and will assume that anyway, they should've focused on bringing Trump to justice instead of trying to play with the court of public opinion like this.

 

[Scerpi]

Worked for Trump didn't it? Just bitch and moan for four years about how the election was stolen and hope the news cycle is in your favor next time around. He even bungled the "red wave" in 2022 after losing in 2020 and yet the party doubled down on him. Why isn't that the lesson Democrats should learn from all this?

I never said they could only have noble intentions but to make the argument that they don't you would have to provide evidence which you haven't.

If anything I think the political motivation went in the opposite direction, the Feds were exceedingly lenient on Trump. Meanwhile Garland took no delays in appointing a special counsel to investigate Biden for the incident where he found classified documents in his home, an incident where Biden fully cooperated with authorities and where no wrongdoing was found but still ultimately led to a politically damaging report by Robert Hur.

Biden's favorite excuse for all if his failures was

"Due to my predecessor.... blah blah blah"

And Feds were lenient on Trump? That's a new one

Politically Damaging? Are you retarded?

Hur said Biden was a demented old man with cognitive issues... and that bringing charges was pointless

And guess what. Robert Hur was right... lol

Despite the DNC and the media doing everything possible to gaslight the American Public that Biden acting like a senile old man on TV wasn't real and that this Biden was the Biden in terms of physical and mental health.

 

[kflo]

Some of it for sure. There are levels and degrees to which things are investigated and pursued. I'm absolutely not claiming that it was ALL (or even mostly) motivated by politics. I'm saying I believe SOME of it was. Too many charges, people commenting, and attention paid by people in positions of power who oppose him to be naive enough to think politics played NO role.

Sure he did it, sure some of the crimes were pretty serious but there’s also a chance there was some underlying political motivation from some…….

Don’t you see how lame an excuse that is? And it allowed many here to just dismiss it all as a political witch hunt. Which you are helping to enable. Maybe….

Sure racism may have motivated some to believe OJ was guilty……but the evidence showed the fucker was guilty af…….

 

[Domitian]

Why shouldn't Biden and Harris do what Trump did and say the election was stolen and try to overturn it? Worked out for Trump in the end since he wasn't held accountable and was able to win four years later. If Republicans won't concede elections when they lose why should Democrats do so going forward?

I'm going to quote this post instead of your last reply to me so we can look at it. Trying to overturn the election would be something of a declaration of war. Yes, it's what Trump tried to do and it failed. Thank God it failed or else our country would have devolved into conflict. Civil wars are common through history and it's very well possible it could happen here. If you go look at what happened after those civil wars the outcome of democracy doesn't occur very often.

Dems just need to regroup, come up with a better strategy, and wait it out. 4 years isn't a lifetime and there will be many more elections as long as the balance of democracy isn't leveled.

 

[mkess101]

Sure he did it, sure some of the crimes were pretty serious but there’s also a chance there was some underlying political motivation from some…….

Don’t you see how lame an excuse that is? And it allowed many here to just dismiss it all as a political witch hunt. Which you are helping to enable. Maybe….

Sure racism may have motivated some to believe OJ was guilty……but the evidence showed the fucker was guilty af…….

I'm not worried about "enabling" anyone. I've made no secret of my dislike of Trump. I think he's a shitty human being, and was one of two shitty choices in the last election so I wrote someone in. But I'm still gonna say what I think is true.

 

[mkess101]

I am engaging, you're the one who refuses to engage on the actual facts of the matter to instead talk in the most vague manner about anything other than the case at hand.

As I said there was possibly a political motivation but its the exact opposite motivation you're assuming, the DOJ was if anything exceedingly lenient on Trump for political reasons. Namely, that they knew rubes like you would perceive any legal action against Trump as being politically motivated. Its a huge mistake though because people like you are clueless and will assume that anyway, they should've focused on bringing Trump to justice instead of trying to play with the court of public opinion like this.

The facts discovered AFTER being investigated are going to tell you what the full motivation was beforehand to start investigating? Is that your contention?

 

[kflo]

I'm not worried about "enabling" anyone. I've made no secret of my dislike of Trump. I think he's a shitty human being, and was one of two shitty choices in the last election so I wrote someone in. But I'm still gonna say what I think is true.

Do you believe he should have been prosecuted for the Georgia case and the documents case?

 

[Islam Imamate]

The facts discovered AFTER being investigated are going to tell you what the full motivation was beforehand to start investigating? Is that your contention?

Not necessarily, like I said statements by Garland and Smith made beforehand could suggest as much. For example, Donald Trump is promising to wield the DOJ against his enemies and I could point to those statements as evidence that subsequent investigations are political should Liz Cheney end up being investigated.

You assume that there must be some kind of political motivation given human nature but what makes you think the political motivation was to go after Trump and not instead to take it easy on him as I've suggested?

 

[Islam Imamate]

I'm going to quote this post instead of your last reply to me so we can look at it. Trying to overturn the election would be something of a declaration of war. Yes, it's what Trump tried to do and it failed. Thank God it failed or else our country would have devolved into conflict. Civil wars are common through history and it's very well possible it could happen here. If you go look at what happened after those civil wars the outcome of democracy doesn't occur very often.

Dems just need to regroup, come up with a better strategy, and wait it out. 4 years isn't a lifetime and there will be many more elections as long as the balance of democracy isn't leveled.

Did it really fail in the grand scheme of things? Sure he failed on Jan 6th 2021 but the Republican party helped vault him back into power with no consequences for his actions and now he's promised to retaliate against those who dared to try to hold him accountable in the first place.

If there's no consequences to such a thing why shouldn't Democrats do the same? Might as well race to the bottom since it works for winning elections right?

 

[mkess101]

Do you believe he should have been prosecuted for the Georgia case and the documents case?

Yes

 

[Domitian]

Did it really fail in the grand scheme of things? Sure he failed on Jan 6th 2021 but the Republican party helped vault him back into power with no consequences for his actions and now he's promised to retaliate against those who dared to try to hold him accountable in the first place.

If there's no consequences to such a thing why shouldn't Democrats do the same? Might as well race to the bottom since it works for winning elections right?

Trump has been demonized for years by the left. I really hope he doesn't try to implement some sort of retaliation now that he's back in power. Our politics, on both sides, have become extremely hostile since 2016 and it's only getting worse. Honestly I think Dems should just take this L and try to come back better in 2028.

 

[Islam Imamate]

Trump has been demonized for years by the left.

In hindsight for very good reason given he tried to steal the election in 2020.

I really hope he doesn't try to implement some sort of retaliation now that he's back in power.

Well he ran on retaliating against the "enemy within" as he calls it so if he doesn't it would be a broken campaign promise.

 

[Domitian]

In hindsight for very good reason given he tried to steal the election in 2020.

Well he ran on retaliating against the "enemy within" as he calls it so if he doesn't it would be a broken campaign promise.

Well let's fucking hope it's a broken campaign promise that was just simply used to draw support to get back in power.

 

[mkess101]

Not necessarily, like I said statements by Garland and Smith made beforehand could suggest as much. For example, Donald Trump is promising to wield the DOJ against his enemies and I could point to those statements as evidence that subsequent investigations are political should Liz Cheney end up being investigated.

You assume that there must be some kind of political motivation given human nature but what makes you think the political motivation was to go after Trump and not instead to take it easy on him as I've suggested?

I think loyalty matters in political circles. Appointees feel SOME level of loyalty toward those who give them jobs. And when those who give them jobs are so vocal about how dangerous someone else is, that resonates with an appointee that has the power to potentially thwart that dangerous person.

And the reality of things can change as time goes by. People change tactics, views, and actions because politics isn't static, it's dynamic. Public opinion matters. If Dem strategists for example see that throwing the book at Trump and going at him full bore is backfiring for them politically, there could be a 180 on the way those prosecuting him proceed. (Not saying that happened, it's just an example of the elasticity of a situation like that).

 

[Islam Imamate]

Well let's fucking hope it's a broken campaign promise that was just simply used to draw support to get back in power.

Isn't it telling that he got support by promising to retaliate against those who tried to hold him accountable and the opposition party generally?

I think loyalty matters in political circles. Appointees feel SOME level of loyalty toward those who give them jobs. And when those who give them jobs are so vocal about how dangerous someone else is, that resonates with an appointee that has the power to potentially thwart that dangerous person.

And the reality of things can change as time goes by. People change tactics, views, and actions because politics isn't static, it's dynamic. Public opinion matters. If Dem strategists for example see that throwing the book at Trump and going at him full bore is backfiring for them politically, there could be a 180 on the way those prosecuting him proceed. (Not saying that happened, it's just an example of the elasticity of a situation like that).

So to be clear this is all vibes and isn't based on any evidence right? Just your gut feeling?

 

[Domitian]

Isn't it telling that he got support by promising to retaliate against those who tried to hold him accountable and the opposition party generally?

So to be clear this is all vibes and isn't based on any evidence right? Just your gut feeling?

Yes, this ties into our politics becoming extremely hostile, again, on both sides since 2016. Everybody here shares some sort of blame. This shit needs to be dialed down about 5 notches or our democracy is going to crumble.