Man who sold Vegas shooter ammunition charged with felony

[HockeyBjj]

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo...charged-in-connection-with-las-vegas-shooting

https://www.google.com/amp/www.lati...uglas-haig-20180202-story.html?outputType=amp

The part that matters most is that, by my understanding, he is being charged with manufacturing armor piercing rounds without a license to do so. If they are going after him simply for selling a large amount of ammo, and that he should have known something was off, that is extremely wrong and a breach of 2nd amendment.

If we have laws on the books about regulating armor piercing ammo sales (that therefore haven’t been stricken down by the courts for being unconstitutional) then he broke the law in making and selling them outside the proper channels.

He sold the shooter 720 rounds of tracer bullets. Police conducted a search warrant on his house and found 100 rounds of armor piercing. Not clear if he sold any of that armor piercing to Paddock. Guy was a 55 year old aerospace engineer who sold and modified Ammo as a side gig. A document released him as a person of interest (was supposed to be redacted but was not) earlier and he began receiving death threats and a media circus in his front lawn began

 

[Seano]

I know some gun nuts and they all trade shit like ammo with each other. Not defending anyone or anything, just saying, there's a culture to it.

 

[cottagecheesefan]

I know some gun nuts and they all trade shit like ammo with each other. Not defending anyone or anything, just saying, there's a culture to it.

Diff culture , hard to judge?

 

[the ambush]

I know some gun nuts and they all trade shit like ammo with each other. Not defending anyone or anything, just saying, there's a culture to it.

In these days and times with the frequency of crime activity it is better to start thinking about covering your own ass. This includes being careful and cognizant of fingerprint traces.

 

[LMP]

He doesn't appear to have anything to do with the actual shooting. He is facing up to 5 year in prison. Crazy people make death threats, it's not acceptable. I can understand wanting someone to place blame on for family members though.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

Didn't know you needed a license to reload AP rounds. Also, if it's the tracer rounds that got the pigs a warrant, where's the charge there?

 

[Phr3121]

"So any ammunition that meets those construction requirements and can be fired from a handgun is legally considered armor piercing. It is legal to buy and possess armor piercing ammunition, but it is illegal to sell armor piercing ammunition. That means you can have it, but nobody can sell it to you."

Source: https://www.quora.com/Is-it-legal-to-buy-armor-piercing-ammunition

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Some idiot from the ATF must have written that.

 

[LMP]

Didn't know you needed a license to reload AP rounds. Also, if it's the tracer rounds that got the pigs a warrant, where's the charge there?

I think it's the selling of the ammo that got him into trouble. Also the AP rounds didn't do a very good job on the fuel tank he hit.

 

[FacePunch]

"So any ammunition that meets those construction requirements and can be fired from a handgun is legally considered armor piercing. It is legal to buy and possess armor piercing ammunition, but it is illegal to sell armor piercing ammunition. That means you can have it, but nobody can sell it to you."

Source: https://www.quora.com/Is-it-legal-to-buy-armor-piercing-ammunition

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Some idiot from the ATF must have written that.

The same thing holds true for a 'owner-made' gun with no serial number.

Edit: Well, not the buy part.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

I think it's the selling of the ammo that got him into trouble. Also the AP rounds didn't do a very good job on the fuel tank he hit.

Story needs clarification.

Source on the rounds hitting the tanks being AP? Dude seemed to know enough to step it up to API, which I'd think would be more likely to ignite something (based on the "I" standing for incendiary).

 

[LMP]

Story needs clarification.

Source on the rounds hitting the tanks being AP? Dude seemed to know enough to step it up to API, which I'd think would be more likely to ignite something (based on the "I" standing for incendiary).

No source on AP being the ones to hit tanks. No ballistics report has been released that I know of. Id have to dig to find they original news report of them saying they thought he fired the tracing rounds at the tank, my memory could be wrong.

 

[LMP]

Story needs clarification.

Source on the rounds hitting the tanks being AP? Dude seemed to know enough to step it up to API, which I'd think would be more likely to ignite something (based on the "I" standing for incendiary).

https://www.cnn.com/2017/10/10/us/las-vegas-shooter-incendiary-rounds/index.html
I assume these where with the AP rounds, but would need ballistic report to confirm.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

https://www.cnn.com/2017/10/10/us/las-vegas-shooter-incendiary-rounds/index.html
I assume these where with the AP rounds, but would need ballistic report to confirm.

Thanks. Knowing what I know about firearms related accuracy in journalism, I need some evidence that tracers aren't being called incendiary. To my knowledge the "I" usually goes with the "AP".

@RerouteToRemain is the ammo expert. Clue us in mf'er.

 

[RerouteToRemain]

Didn't know you needed a license to reload AP rounds. Also, if it's the tracer rounds that got the pigs a warrant, where's the charge there?

In 5.56 you can't buy M995 rounds because of AR pistols I believe. But you can buy AP .308, 30-06, etc.

Pretty sure you can buy 5.56 tracers and incendiary no problem. I've seen them for sale online multiple times. Hell I could buy APIT (armor piercing incendiary tracers) or even raufoss rounds for a .50. Idk it's what the atf decides what can be a common "pistol" round, can't have those cop killer rounds out on the street...

But the Vegas guy unless he was shooting at people with armor plates M995 is a poor choice.

 

[Deleted member 429137]

I thought I understood this thread until I got to the second paragraph and then everyone's responses confused me even more.

He was charged with conspiracy because, without a license, he manufactured and sold ammunition that was illegal to manufacture and sell without a license. Case closed, no?

 

[LMP]

I thought I understood this thread until I got to the second paragraph and then everyone's responses confused me even more.

He was charged with conspiracy because, without a license, he manufactured and sold ammunition that was illegal to manufacture and sell without a license. Case closed, no?

No his charges are not connected to the murder case at this point. He has only been charged with manufacturing the AP rounds.

 

[Gregolian]

It is legal to buy and possess armor piercing ammunition, but it is illegal to sell armor piercing ammunition. That means you can have it, but nobody can sell it to you."


Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Some idiot from the ATF must have written that.

Did a fucking 2nd grader write the italics?

If that's a law on the books... how am I able to buy fucking 2 150 round crates of green tips every 2 months?


Also, I hate to be THAT guy but frankly, any rifle that shoots subsonic ammunition is going to cut through soft armor like it isn't even there.

 

[Deleted member 429137]

No his charges are not connected to the murder case at this point. He has only been charged with manufacturing the AP rounds.

Yeah, that's what I said. He was charged with conspiracy to manufacture and sell armour-piercing bullets without a license.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...n-idUSKBN1FN01N?feedType=RSS&feedName=newsOne

An ammunition dealer who has acknowledged selling hundreds of rounds of tracer bullets to a gunman responsible for killing 58 people in Las Vegas was charged on Friday with conspiracy to make and sell armor-piercing ammunition without a license.

I don't understand what people are debating in this thread. Maybe I need to go to bed.

 

[Gregolian]

Yeah, that's what I said. He was charged with conspiracy to manufacture and sell armour-piercing bullets without a license.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...n-idUSKBN1FN01N?feedType=RSS&feedName=newsOne



I don't understand what people are debating in this thread. Maybe I need to go to bed.

Tracers as I understand them and AP are different though.

 

[LMP]

Yeah, that's what I said. He was charged with conspiracy to manufacture and sell armour-piercing bullets without a license.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...n-idUSKBN1FN01N?feedType=RSS&feedName=newsOne



I don't understand what people are debating in this thread. Maybe I need to go to bed.

Misunderstood what you meant by "conspiracy, till your clarification. Yea pretty cut in dry on these charges.