Majority of Republicans now think college is bad

[Jorge Luis Borges]

youre right. very right.

however, shunning college and only embracing "experience" and "common sense" is just as foolish as the know-it-all enlightened liberal arts majors.

Agreed. However, it is far from clear that conservatives are shunning colleges. The question asked was whether colleges have a net positive or negative effect on the country. It isn't education itself that conservatives distrust, but the educational institutions. And I think there is good reason to distrust educational institutions, especially as a conservative.

First off, look at the bat shit crazy ideas coming out of the politicized departments (almost entirely in the humanities). Then consider the extent to which speech and even due process rights are restricted in many of these institutions. Then consider that conservatives are discriminated against on campus in the US, both as students and as faculty, while the far left is given almost free rein.

Higher education is in a very unhealthy state in the US. I hope many moderate liberals can see that as well, because the health of these institutions is extremely important to our future.

 

[kpt018]

I'd be willing to bet that the great majority of those on the right who think college is detrimental to society are not college educated professionals. I know, I'm really going out on a limb there.

I'm too lazy to find the data but I would have thought this is a class thing, not a political one.

 

[Sir Galahad]

Polling shows that majority of Republicans think college is bad.


http://www.salon.com/2017/07/11/ame...rity-of-republicans-now-think-college-is-bad/

pew research here

http://www.people-press.org/2017/07/10/sharp-partisan-divisions-in-views-of-national-institutions/

Not colleges. Liberal professors who spew hate and lies about the Republican Party.

 

[Falsedawn]

yep, personally I'm not on board the anti-college train but I'd like to know how many libs who smugly post in this thread because it says 'Republicans' graduated in English literature, liberal arts, communication studies, gender studies etc

I honestly don't think you're going to find very many liberals that look down on liberal arts, that's what the original colleges were after all. Colleges shouldn't be job training facilities, they're there to teach you how to think critically and how to learn at their base. The people you see ragging on colleges are ones that think that your degree should be STEM or you're worthless, as if employers don't have a responsibility to train their workers anymore.

 

[kpt018]

Agreed. However, it is far from clear that conservatives are shunning colleges. The question asked was whether colleges have a net positive or negative effect on the country. It isn't education itself that conservatives distrust, but the educational institutions. And I think there is good reason to distrust educational institutions, especially as a conservative.

First off, look at the bat shit crazy ideas coming out of the politicized departments (almost entirely in the humanities). Then consider the extent to which speech and even due process rights are restricted in many of these institutions. Then consider that conservatives are discriminated against on campus in the US, both as students and as faculty, while the far left is given almost free rein.

Higher education is in a very unhealthy state in the US. I hope many moderate liberals can see that as well, because the health of these institutions is extremely important to our future.

I think it's up to the universities themselves to police the SJW shit that is going on in some campuses. Some of the stories we're hearing are really ugly but I don't really see it as a left vs right thing. Smart liberals see that stuff as anti-liberal. University leaders need to make it clear that if an idea offends you to the point you can't function or that you lose your shit college isn't the place for you.

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

I'd be willing to bet that the great majority of those on the right who think college is detrimental to society are not college educated professionals. I know, I'm really going out on a limb there.

I'm too lazy to find the data but I would have thought this is a class thing, not a political one.

Seems likely. I am college educated, and my experiences in college left me highly skeptical of the state of the humanities specifically and the health of the college environment generally. It's because I prize learning that I despise what I see as largely indoctrination.

 

[Gregolian]

they're there to teach you how to think critically

Some may argue they don't even do that real well anymore as a lot of colleges, especially in the liberal arts sections of the colleges, are fucking echo chambers now.

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

I think it's up to the universities themselves to police the SJW shit that is going on in some campuses. Some of the stories we're hearing are really ugly but I don't really see it as a left vs right thing. Smart liberals see that stuff as anti-liberal. University leaders need to make it clear that if an idea offends you to the point you can't function or that you lose your shit college isn't the place for you.

I mostly agree. The biggest issue is the unwillingness of college administrations to simply step in shut some of this stuff down. After the protests in Missouri, Ohio State simply threatened to expel a number of students trying to occupy the student union (or admin building, can't remember). It cleared things up quickly.

However, it is useless to pretend there is no right/left element to this, when both faculties and administrations at these schools are almost entirely liberal and by far most of the craziness has a radical leftist bent. It is extremely difficult to be hired as a professor in the US as an open conservative.

 

[Falsedawn]

Some may argue they don't even do that real well anymore as a lot of colleges, especially in the liberal arts sections of the colleges, are fucking echo chambers now.

Who argues that?

What colleges?

Are the only classes they take liberal arts, or are there other classes that they have to take to get a degree?

Come on dude, you as well as I know that that narrative makes no sense.

 

[KILL KILL]

I honestly don't think you're going to find very many liberals that look down on liberal arts, that's what the original colleges were after all. Colleges shouldn't be job training facilities, they're there to teach you how to think critically and how to learn at their base. The people you see ragging on colleges are ones that think that your degree should be STEM or you're worthless, as if employers don't have a responsibility to train their workers anymore.

Youre right. There are a lot of people that are seemingly surprised that their degree in lesbian history doesn't translate to a high paying job though. They identify college as a necessary progression into the workforce without realizing that certain degrees are very niche.

 

[Gregolian]

Who argues that?

What colleges?

Are the only classes they take liberal arts, or are there other classes that they have to take to get a degree?

Come on dude, you as well as I know that that narrative makes no sense.

I do based on my time at Western Washington University in their political science program. I know that Peterson mentioned it on a JRE podcast how students at Uni can't seem to comprehend others think differently than they do sometimes.

At least two of my 300 level classes felt like I was living in a goddamn echo chamber of white people telling me the Asian half breed how I should feel about things.

I'm also kinda confused what the highlighted has to do with what I said but I'm running on 3 hours sleep in the last 36 hours so that could be part of it.

 

[lecter]

The people you see ragging on colleges are ones that think that your degree should be STEM or you're worthless, as if employers don't have a responsibility to train their workers anymore.

I wouldn't say STEM or bust. I also wouldn't say that the primary purpose of university education should be an expensive form of job training.
It still feels weird to see people bragging about their education when they graduated in gender studies or Egyptology or Fermentation Science.
Maybe I'm a bit irrational here but I can't change it.
I'm a huge defender of formal higher education, by the way, even within my discipline 90% of the people are more critical and constantly complain while I've always defended the status quo.
But I definitely can understand a certain skepticism considering what kind of stories you hear from colleges these days.
That starts with colleges offering degrees in ridiculous and weird disciplines. Youtube videos of students going full retard and screaming at their professor because they feel oppressed also don't help.

 

[KILL KILL]

Seems likely. I am college educated, and my experiences in college left me highly skeptical of the state of the humanities specifically and the health of the college environment generally. It's because I prize learning that I despise what I see as largely indoctrination.

Where did you go to school? My experience was quite the opposite. Zero indoctrination. No beliefs were forced upon anyone. I went to a fairly large university though.

 

[Falsedawn]

Youre right. There are a lot of people that are seemingly surprised that their degree in lesbian history doesn't translate to a high paying job though. They identify college as a necessary progression into the workforce without realizing that certain degrees are very niche.

You're definitely correct, and for those people we should steer them toward academia as that'll be their niche. Maybe they won't make a million dollars, but let's not act like their degrees don't have value. I find it amazing that people can cry about "the loss of western culture" but use something like art history majors as their punching bags. Yeah stupid asses, they're the ones researching and documenting your beloved culture, it makes total sense to shit on them. /s

 

[KONG-D'SNT-TAP]

Yeah get a job @Devout Pessimist like Kong over here. Be a career bartender LOLMAOROFL!!!

By career bartender you mean part owner of 3 successful bars and restaurants in New Jersey.

 

[kpt018]

Seems likely. I am college educated, and my experiences in college left me highly skeptical of the state of the humanities specifically and the health of the college environment generally. It's because I prize learning that I despise what I see as largely indoctrination.

Obviously I can't speak to your education but if done right there is no topic that is indoctrination IMO. If done as logical and scientifically based you are receiving facts and findings from a perspective or given field. I've personally never taken a class that felt like blind indoctrination.

Of course it can be done badly, but I wouldn't demonize entire fields of study. IMO that blame belongs on the professor or institution or both.

I mostly agree. The biggest issue is the unwillingness of college administrations to simply step in shut some of this stuff down. After the protests in Missouri, Ohio State simply threatened to expel a number of students trying to occupy the student union (or admin building, can't remember). It cleared things up quickly.

However, it is useless to pretend there is no right/left element to this, when both faculties and administrations at these schools are almost entirely liberal and by far most of the craziness has a radical leftist bent. It is extremely difficult to be hired as a professor in the US as an open conservative.

I'm not sure I buy that last paragraph. It's true that the vast majority of scientists are liberal but most of finance professionals are right leaning, for example. That holds true for most business professionals. Of course there are economics academics on both sides of the political isle, same is true for law professors, etc.. I think the reason most professors are liberal is because of the topics presented, not the profession itself. Arts and sciences are heavily liberal and that makes up a large part of the curriculum, but economics, law, business etc. are not.

 

[Falsedawn]

I do based on my time at Western Washington University in their political science program.

At least two of my 300 level classes felt like I was living in a goddamn echo chamber of white people telling me the Asian half breed how I should feel about things.

I'll take your anecdote at face value, but even then, it was two classes...and 300 level classes at that! I took a grand total of one class that could classify as anything remotely gender related in my 4 years, and it was one of the most rigorous gender psychology classes that i've ever taken. That's it.

We can argue up and down about how much bias liberal arts have, but unless you're at Juilliard or some shit, i'd bet my life that your entire academic career wasn't liberal arts. So for people to go on about "How biased colleges are" and "omg liberal arts" is downright silly to me.

 

[Morning Star]

College can be good or bad depending on which path you decide to take. The bad:

• Puts young adults in to a large amount of debt.
• Too many worthless classes (took 2 types of Greek Mythology to complete my GE requirement), which also drives up the prices.
• So many worthless liberal arts degrees that cost a lot but pay nothing once in the work force.
• Not all but many people would make a better living and face less crippling debt going to trade school.
• Accepts too many students that have no business being at a College (See Evergreen).
• It's become too much of a business (See CA system accepting foreign students with lower grades over CA students because they make more per student).

That's just off the top of my head. I still think you're better off getting that degree than not, but let's not pretend the the system is perfect and everyone that points that out is some anti-intellectual. Not every thing is an absolute.

Also seeing these shithead kids constantly throwing temper tantrums on the news the last few years with the Colleges not being able to show any type of leadership and in some cases encouraging it has hurt their brand (e.g. Berkeley, Mizzou, Evergreen, etc.).

 

[Lord Commander Palis]

By career bartender you mean part owner of 3 successful bars and restaurants in New Jersey.

Which ones?

 

[KONG-D'SNT-TAP]

Which ones?

lol where do you work. The name of your company. You wouldn't tell people that online. That's how u get some loony to come there and go postal.