Maintenance routine help

Discussion in 'Strength & Conditioning Discussion' started by FuriousFist, Mar 23, 2008.

  1. FuriousFist

    FuriousFist Yellow Belt

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    I have been following Stronglifts.com 5x5 since November with the goal of getting stronger for Judo, which I started in January. Never lifted before this.

    Now I am having problems recovering enough from lifting days for Judo, and vice versa. Going from a three- to a two-day split was just a band-aid solution. Also, the lifts are starting to get a bit suspect, technique-wise.

    It sounds like I should be consolidating my gains and working on technique, but I have no idea how. I couldn't find anything in the stickies as to what a maintenance program should look like. Do I just keep doing what I'm doing without increasing the weight I'm lifting until my technique and capacity for recovery is better? Do I pick a % of the weight I'm lifting now?

    Here are the numbers to date:

    5'7" 164lbs.

    5x5 Squat 245lbs
    5x5 Bench 135lbs
    5x1 Deadlift 265lbs
    5x5 OHP 75lbs
    3x5 Pull ups

    These are not maxes; I have no idea what they would be. Except for OHP and deadlifts, I feel I can still easily keep increasing the weights as per the program. Judo completely destroys my shoulders and grip, which affects my OHP is also why I'm having problems with failed deadlifts due to grip failure. Switching to alternating grip helps only a little.

    Schedule:

    M, W, F: Judo
    T: Kung Fu (shut up)
    Th: Squat, bench, deadlifts
    Sat AM: Squat, OHP, pull ups
    Sa PM occasionally: Judo open mat (skill session only, so call it active recovery?)

    I've started getting ready for roadwork too this week (30 minutes at 8:30 mile pace), but judging from how I felt before, when I wasn't seriously running, it hasn't really had any (positive/negative) effect on my lifting or Judo recovery.

    Thanks everyone.
     
  2. Merrill

    Merrill Purple Belt

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    What are you doing for the 2-day split? Are you doing the one in the sherdog FAQ? Or another variation?
     
  3. FuriousFist

    FuriousFist Yellow Belt

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    Stronglifts.com 5x5. Actually, it looks like the program has been updated since I last looked at it (added dips and rows). But here's what it used to look like / what I'm doing:

    Day 1: 5x5 squat, 5x5 bench, 5x1 deadlifts
    Day 2: 5x5 squat, 5x5 OHP, 3xF pull ups

    It's straight-up linear progression: keep adding 5lbs (or 10lbs in the case of deads) until you fail a set. If you fail, retry that weight for up to two additional sessions. De-load if you still fail those attempts. For pull-ups, you try to get to 10 reps on the first set, then start adding weights.
     
  4. Merrill

    Merrill Purple Belt

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    The problem is, you are trying to do 2 heavy full body workouts with only one days rest in between sessions.

    A more reasonable approach if you are going to lift Thursday and Saturday would be to incorpoate a Lower and Upper split:


    Week1:

    Day1: Squat 5X5, SLDL or RDL 3X6-8, Abs 2X?

    Day2:Bench Press 5X5, Pull ups 5Xmax reps, OHP 3X6-8,

    Week2:

    Day1: Deadlift 3X5, Unilateral 4X8-10, ABs 2X?

    Day2:Bench Press 5X5, BOR 5X5, DB shoulder press 3X6-8

    Utilize alternating sets where possible: i.e. one set of bench press, rest 90-120 seconds, one set BOR, rest 90-120 seconds, repeat until all sets of 2 exercises are done.

    This is only of course one example.
     
  5. FuriousFist

    FuriousFist Yellow Belt

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    I'll look into this, but this is an awful lot of new lifts to learn how to do correctly. What's unilateral mean?
     
  6. the_harbinger

    the_harbinger Orange Belt

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    Unilateral lifts involve one lift at a time.

    Take Merill's advice. All of the lifts he mentioned can be done by novices.

    I mean if I can do them...
     
  7. ahab

    ahab Eater of small villages.

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    errm, unilateral means one side of the body at a time

    squat - bilateral
    lunge - unilateral
     
  8. SpiralOut

    SpiralOut Yellow Belt

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    Furious, a heads up to you, StrongLifts is moving towards a subscribtion site. Mehdi said he wants to charge an astounding $47 a month for access. No joke. I'd download his ebook any any articles you care to keep with you before the server is down for good.
     
  9. FuriousFist

    FuriousFist Yellow Belt

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    That's pretty astounding. As much as the beginner's 5x5 he put together helped me out, who would seriously shell out that much to a relative unknown when Rippetoe is giving out advice on the InterWebs for free?
     
  10. mschatz

    mschatz Hamma: I has it

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    Well, for one thing, youre squating on thursday, and then youre squatting on saturday morning again.

    I'd do a 2 day split like this and try o have them as far apart as possible

    1
    Squat
    Push Press
    Chins

    2
    DL or Clean Variation
    Bench (if you must) or BOR
    Grip work, farmers walks
     
  11. Lusst

    Lusst Red Belt

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    Great advice here, gentleman.
     
  12. FuriousFist

    FuriousFist Yellow Belt

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    Thanks. Thursday / Sunday would be the best I could do, so I guess I'm stuck :p

    The split you suggested sounds really good to me, except I'm not sure I would want to work grip explicitly; my hands are getting a pretty workout from judo alone and they need as much rest as they can get. I'll probably sub it out for some ab work (like shrimping drills) or turkish getups and whatnot.

    Any reason for push press vs. SOHP, or the lack of love for benching?
     
  13. Mark Limbaga

    Mark Limbaga Amateur Fighter

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    I'd switch to EDT in your case since its more time efficient
     
  14. FuriousFist

    FuriousFist Yellow Belt

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    I like time efficient. Am googling EDT now, but is there perhaps a definitive link out there on what it is?
     
  15. spiral

    spiral Banned Banned

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    Hi there, lifting for judo too. Unfortunately, I have less and less time for judo, but I keep lifting whenever I can.

    That's what I do, and it seems ok for recup time. Squatting two times a week seems to be very taxing.

    Also, have you tried stronglifts.com second routine? Mehdi advises to replace one squat session by a front squat session every week, for this very reason. Maybe you should give it a try...
     
  16. Mark Limbaga

    Mark Limbaga Amateur Fighter

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    escalating density training.
     
  17. CarnalSalvation

    CarnalSalvation Trying to make a Milankey

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    Somebody has pointed out that in the time it takes to "maintain" you could actually be making gains, even if they're slower, right?

    If not, you could still be making gains, even if they're not as rapid as you might like.
     
  18. mschatz

    mschatz Hamma: I has it

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    Working grip will really carry over to judo or other grappling sports. And if use farmers walks over strict "grip" work like grippers or pinch grip or whatever, theres an excellent GPP carryover as well.

    Ive found my core gets taxed effectively enough stabilizing everything for squats, dl's and the like, but whatever floats your boat.

    Re: sohp vs push press, I should clarify. I start with strict press, add weight each set, and adjust to push presses or even jerks sometimes as the added weight demands. Bench...I guess its never seemed like a really effective movement to me for athletic carryover, but there's nothing inherently wrong with it. I guess I just think other movements should be given priority.
     
  19. CarnalSalvation

    CarnalSalvation Trying to make a Milankey

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    I agree regarding the bench press, but on the flipside I feel it's much better for developing mass.

    As far as grip goes, your hands and forearms are more or less designed for high frequency, you could grapple everyday and still train grip twice a day as long as you eased into it. You use them constantly, even sedentary people have great hand GPP.
     
  20. vince89

    vince89 Banned Banned

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    Youre Squatting 245lbs at 164lbs for 5 sets of 5. Thats 1.5x your bodyweight which is where StrongLifts says to stop and move onto another routine. I can imagine those squat sessions are very taxing so Id probably look into another routine now that your squat has gotten to that level. Or if you like the high volume, maybe alternate between a high volume heavy day and a high rep endurance day or a speed/technique day to give yourself abit more time to recover.
     

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