Social MAGA 2025 Civil war incoming! Vivek Ramaswamy Betrays Base & reveals true colors, Says Americans SUCK !!

[deviake]

It's not a financial incentive in the way that you're thinking. It's a talent incentive that yields financial gain. And that's hard for people to accept. Firing guys in the top 5% of world to hire guys in the top 1% of the world makes more money.

The top 1% will produce more, they'll innovate more, they know more, and they got to the top of their class or group because they are working harder than the rest. For a company that turns on innovation, that's an economic goldmine.

Remember, the innovations that workers come up with largely belong to the employer. Musk is a great example of understanding this. None of his companies are based on his individual innovations. He either acquired the brilliant innovations of others or employed people who innovated on his behalf. No different than Thomas Edison. So companies understand the more innovation they get out of their staff, the more advantage they can create in the marketplace.

And bright minds sharpen bright minds, no different than in athletics.

So, it's definitely financial but it's not about the wage bill.

It's not that there's zero truth here nor that all visas are bad, it's that there's no way this is the whole story

 

[deadshot138]

Sam Hyde eviscerated these two dweebs with a single video. Basically said they're anti American and have no business in politics.

 

[deviake]

I did but so what? In context it made sense. Obviously people are more than labor inputs but we shouldn't try to engineer meaning in the lives of the citizenry through labor policy. I support generous unemployment as a balance to the creative destruction of capitalism. So if you do lose your job because of an H1B worker I want you to get robust unemployment benefits not just to get by but to be able to pivot in life to starting a business or investing in certification/training and what have you.

And you think that's good? I want tech companies to be able to grow. You want to be coddled and I don't agree with that.

When workers lose their jobs due to corporate greed or like wal mart, are paid so little they qualify for benefits, it's in effect subsidizing corporate greed with tax payer money.

Edit: while they buy off politicians to minimize their own tax bills

 

[Darkavius]

I'm pretty far above the average local salary. If H1 was abolished I don't see it going any higher. And I've been pretty clear from the start why I don't like the program. It allows shitty companies to continue being shitty companies. I know this thru personal experience. The H1 people were like scabs to a non-existent tech union.

Currently I have less issue with H1-B Visas and more of an issue with companies who send work offshore for jobs that can be done in America. At least with H1-B the argument is said person can come, work and pay taxes in America. When jobs are shipped offshore I have seen terrible experiences. If anything I would be more open to the idea of limiting what jobs can be shipped offshore by corps as opposed to this issue with H1-B Visas.

 

[deviake]

Elon, might I add, is NOTORIOUSLY anti labor

 

[terrapin]

Elon, might I add, is NOTORIOUSLY anti labor

Yeah, it's not like that guy has a track record of caring about his employees well-being, health, families, or any other aspect of their life outside of work.


And why would he? He's had multiple children while working 18 hours a day and never being there for them. His reptilian brain seems unable completely to compute meaning, purpose or responsibility towards people's, emotional and mental development etc.

I believe Elon Musk is uniquely incapable of processing human needs, spiritual needs emotional and psychological needs.

No way that guy should have a say at the table for how labor and work-life balance and policies enacted by the government should affect those things.

 

[Mr Holmes]

Yeah, it's not like that guy has a track record of caring about his employees well-being, health, families, or any other aspect of their life outside of work.


And why would he? He's had multiple children while working 18 hours a day and never being there for them. His reptilian brain seems unable completely to compute meaning, purpose or responsibility towards people's, emotional and mental development etc.

I believe Elon Musk is uniquely incapable of processing human needs, spiritual needs emotional and psychological needs.

No way that guy should have a say at the table for how labor and work-life balance and policies enacted by the government should affect those things.

Isn't he literally autistic? @HOLA do you know?

 

[deviake]

Yeah, it's not like that guy has a track record of caring about his employees well-being, health, families, or any other aspect of their life outside of work.


And why would he? He's had multiple children while working 18 hours a day and never being there for them. His reptilian brain seems unable completely to compute meaning purpose, responsibility towards people's, emotional and mental development etc.

I believe Elon Musk is uniquely incapable of processing human needs, spiritual needs emotional and psychological needs.

No way that guy should have a say at the table for how labor and work-life balance and policies enacted by the government should affect those things.

Yep. Work life balance and what's best for the humans in this is not even considered. Then we wonder why there's mental health issues and people are so spiritually dead. It's just grow grow grow, number go up. It's sociopathic

 

[Islam Imamate]

The visas have always been capped. There can't be unlimited numbers. I think if you are flooding one field creating imbalance to the norm then there could be some cause for looking at that. Never really thought of it much in terms of what fields those are. Obv tech is huge now in India and a lot of companies outsource to India for things like engineering etc. So maybe those markets specifically. Again I don't know of the 85k per year, how many are in tech vs engineering vs another.

If it's capped by the government then it's not a naturally occurring restriction, it's artificial.

If we had high unemployment that'd be one thing but we don't, we have more or less full employment right now. No need to restrict it further, if anything we need the opposite. If in the future we have an unemployment crisis then sure, restrict H1B visas. Until then I say open the gates.

I find your position harder to debate against, because I do think it's consistent and logical.

However, I think uncapping (or vastly expanding) H-1Bs effectively ends up, in practice, privatizing immigration via companies, right?

I think that's why I don't like that take in principle (and obv im just fuckin biased).

That's one way to look at it but I don't have an issue with it.

Part of the reason I want worker visas expanded is not just because we have demand for more workers across many industries but also because I believe it helps project American soft power. When people speak of the influence of the Gulf states like Saudi Arabia in the Muslim world they tend to focus on their funding of mosques abroad but one important vector for their soft power is their immigration system, Muslim move to the Gulf for work and assimilate some of their values and take them back home. I've known Muslims who have gone there for work and come back more religious.

Maybe this is my arrogant Americanism at work but I truly believe we are the greatest country in the world and that if we allow workers from abroad to come here and see it for themselves they will take a piece of America back with them. And so when countries like India have elections, I expect that Indians who worked here for a time will have a positive view of our country and will be more likely to vote for pro-American candidates over anti-American ones.

Well there are shitty development jobs as well.

You think working as a SWE for Amazon is a shitty job?

When workers lose their jobs due to corporate greed or like wal mart, are paid so little they qualify for benefits, it's in effect subsidizing corporate greed with tax payer money.

You're conflating completely different issues here, HB1 tech workers are not qualifying for government benefits.

Edit: while they buy off politicians to minimize their own tax bills

But again I'm for higher taxes as along as they're implemented carefully. I'm all for steep estate taxes on the very rich for example.

 

[Mr Holmes]

You think working as a SWE for Amazon is a shitty job?

I never said that.

 

[Islam Imamate]

Sam Hyde eviscerated these two dweebs with a single video. Basically said they're anti American and have no business in politics.

Pretty sure Sam Hyde is a racist whose main concern is keeping America white. If you agree that's important then yeah I can see why you wouldn't want Indians coming here on H1B visas but otherwise its not very compelling.

 

[Deorum]

I believe Elon Musk is uniquely incapable of processing human needs, spiritual needs emotional and psychological needs.

 

[Islam Imamate]

I never said that.

Let's follow the chain of responses.

Amazon is famous for being a awful place to work.

Yeah as a warehouse worker, not as a SWE.

Well there are shitty development jobs as well.

In context it seems like you're implying that allowing Amazon to hire HB1 visas to fill SWE positions will mean Amazon will become a shitty place to work as a SWE. If that's not what you're arguing then okay.

 

[deviake]

If it's capped by the government then it's not a naturally occurring restriction, it's artificial.

If we had high unemployment that'd be one thing but we don't, we have more or less full employment right now. No need to restrict it further, if anything we need the opposite. If in the future we have an unemployment crisis then sure, restrict H1B visas. Until then I say open the gates.

That's one way to look at it but I don't have an issue with it.

Part of the reason I want worker visas expanded is not just because we have demand for more workers across many industries but also because I believe it helps project American soft power. When people speak of the influence of the Gulf states like Saudi Arabia in the Muslim world they tend to focus on their funding of mosques abroad but one important vector for their soft power is their immigration system, Muslim move to the Gulf for work and assimilate some of their values and take them back home. I've known Muslims who have gone there for work and come back more religious.

Maybe this is my arrogant Americanism at work but I truly believe we are the greatest country in the world and that if we allow workers from abroad to come here and see it for themselves they will take a piece of America back with them. And so when countries like India have elections, I expect that Indians who worked here for a time will have a positive view of our country and will be more likely to vote for pro-American candidates over anti-American ones.

You think working as a SWE for Amazon is a shitty job?

You're conflating completely different issues here, HB1 tech workers are not qualifying for government benefits.

But again I'm for higher taxes as along as they're implemented carefully. I'm all for steep estate taxes on the very rich for example.

I didn't say they did, that wasn't my point. I'm definitely for taxing the ever living shit out of the wealthy, particularly the ultra wealthy

 

[deadshot138]

Pretty sure Sam Hyde is a racist whose main concern is keeping America white. If you agree that's important then yeah I can see why you wouldn't want Indians coming here on H1B visas but otherwise its not very compelling.

You sound a bit biased.

 

[Islam Imamate]

You sound a bit biased.

How so? And Sam Hyde is not? Do you agree that keeping America white is important? I don't but maybe you do in which case I can see why you'd find his argument appealing.

 

[Deorum]

Sam Hyde eviscerated these two dweebs with a single video. Basically said they're anti American and have no business in politics.

 

[Natural Order]

Sure or in other words reduces the cost of labor inputs bringing prices down for everyone.

Say what?

 

[deadshot138]

How so? And Sam Hyde is not? Do you agree that keeping America white is important? I don't but maybe you do in which case I can see why you'd find his argument appealing.

I don't agree keeping America white is important. There's a difference between keeping jobs white and keeping them American. Lacking the nuance to discern the two either shows your racial bias or lack of intelligence.

 

[Islam Imamate]

I don't agree keeping America white is important. There's a difference between keeping jobs white and keeping them American. Lacking the nuance to discern the two either shows your racial bias or lack of intelligence.

But Sam Hyde does care about keeping America white, he explicitly says America is not about ideas but about race and specifically "European" race.

The fact that you missed that shows your lack of intelligence or your lack of honesty.