Maduro to Venezuelans: "God will provide"

[OldGoat]

They should vote themselves a wage increase. Since wealth is the logical output of legislation pass a bill or two and problem solved.

Oh wait wealth requires production. Get off your ass Venezuela.

 

[OldGoat]

Except that all first world economies are service based not industrial.

Yes, when a country is on the industrial phase, its better to have some degree of income inequality.



Buying stock is investing.

The crisis of the 30s happened because of overinvestment, which happens when the market shrinks because of low spending. If what you said was true then deflation would be a pretty nice thing, yet, its not.



We are talking about capitalism here, not economics in general, and capitalism needs spending and growth. Too efficient and the system crashes down like its happening in Europe with deflation.

Any source on all 1st world economies being service? I think Japan Germany and the U.S. would disagree

 

[Shadouken**]

More people suffering in the world because of America and their Saudi regime.

They make the people suffer so that they blame their leaders and have a revolution that puts in a puppet leader.


Why aren't more American's against this or aren't they aware?

 

[kpt018]

I've got news, there are American politicians at high levels that have even nuttier views. And guess what party they belong to?

 

[Zankou]

More people suffering in the world because of America and their Saudi regime.

They make the people suffer so that they blame their leaders and have a revolution that puts in a puppet.

Why aren't more American's against this or aren't they aware?

Against what? Cheap oil? You are asking why Americans aren't in favor of paying more of their money to foreign autocrats? Why not ask why more Americans aren't in favor of drinking a bucket of kerosene every morning?

 

[SolidIce]

More people suffering in the world because of America and their Saudi regime.

They make the people suffer so that they blame their leaders and have a revolution that puts in a puppet leader.


Why aren't more American's against this or aren't they aware?

Can't tell if serious, sarcasm, or troll

 

[OldGoat]

More people suffering in the world because of America and their Saudi regime.

They make the people suffer so that they blame their leaders and have a revolution that puts in a puppet leader.


Why aren't more American's against this or aren't they aware?

It's venezuelas problem they do not have a diverse economy. The rest of the world doesn't owe them high oil prices.

 

[Rod1]

Any source on all 1st world economies being service? I think Japan Germany and the U.S. would disagree

Stop posting

EDIT

Just so you know.

US services 80% of the economy

Japan services 71.4% of the economy.

Germany services 71.2% of the economy.

Source? pick one, IMF, World Bank, CIA Factbook, etc etc.

This is a capitalistic world, the money is in the hands of that who hold the capital, not the ones that actually make the world run.

 

[OldGoat]

Stop posting

That's no source. Unless you think rod1's imagination is a valid source. I could be wrong. Japan might not make anything. Japan may be nothing more than a nation of middlemen and shopkeepers now.

Now I see your edit.
I stand corrected!

I knew worldwide exploitation of labor was profitable but I am surprised it's this profitable.

 

[MadSquabbles500]

Why dont these countries just bail themselves out with a US inspired TARP or something?

I mean the US economy was trading more worth in mortgage backed securities than the entire GDP of some of these places for a while, and that went bust. We just printed out more money to keep ourselves afloat for a bit. Now I hear out economy is making a comeback, with the lowest unemployment since the whole debacle started. Pretty sweet for us.

 

[Zankou]

Why dont these countries just bail themselves out with a US inspired TARP or something?

I mean the US economy was trading more worth in mortgage backed securities than the entire GDP of some of these places for a while, and that went bust. We just printed out more money to keep ourselves afloat for a bit. Now I hear out economy is making a comeback, with the lowest unemployment since the whole debacle started. Pretty sweet for us.

They've already been TARPing for years. That's the whole problem. Venezuela is experiencing the exact situation that Right Wingers are always claiming threatens the US if it runs stimulus -- wild inflation and a crazily distorted economy.

In other words, you can't TARP your way out of TARP failure. You can only TARP if inflation is low and creditors aren't baying for your death. Which, fortunately, is where the US was and currently remains. With Venezuelan inflation being staggering, and its credit worthiness a joke, it has no options but an inevitable collapse into protests and ouster of Maduro.

 

[Rod1]

That's no source. Unless you think rod1's imagination is a valid source. I could be wrong. Japan might not make anything. Japan may be nothing more than a nation of middlemen and shopkeepers now.

Now I see your edit.
I stand corrected!

I knew worldwide exploitation of labor was profitable but I am surprised it's this profitable.

Sorry, but first world economies being service based is like saying the sky is blue.

Thats why i said stop posting, if you dont know that simple fact that you will learn in a high school economy class you obviously are not currently educated in the matter enough to be chiming into this thread.

And of course commerce and finance are far far more profitable than production, we live in a capitalist world after all.

 

[OldGoat]

Why dont these countries just bail themselves out with a US inspired TARP or something?

I mean the US economy was trading more worth in mortgage backed securities than the entire GDP of some of these places for a while, and that went bust. We just printed out more money to keep ourselves afloat for a bit. Now I hear out economy is making a comeback, with the lowest unemployment since the whole debacle started. Pretty sweet for us.

It helps when US debt is in US dollars.

 

[Rod1]

Why dont these countries just bail themselves out with a US inspired TARP or something?

I mean the US economy was trading more worth in mortgage backed securities than the entire GDP of some of these places for a while, and that went bust. We just printed out more money to keep ourselves afloat for a bit. Now I hear out economy is making a comeback, with the lowest unemployment since the whole debacle started. Pretty sweet for us.

The US is a special case since they control the universal currency.

There is no way the US can default as long as there is no real alternative to the US dollar. And people dont really want to look for an alternative to the dollar because the US is run decently enough.

 

[MikeHammer**]

No, its not about capital, its about the means of production. Communists take the entire industries, socialists just tax them.

Also Greece went under because it didnt taxed its business proportionally to its spending.

are you saying Greece went under because they were not taxing enough.

 

[MikeHammer**]

1: Capitalism started after the middle ages in North West Europe and later in the rest of the west. Because of increased trade, more investment and the industrial revolution. Industry needs investments. So you need people who are saving money and are investing it in companies. Those companies uses machines. So they can make better, cheaper and new products. Those employees are far more productive with machines than with only there bodies and tools. Because they are more productive the earn more money and can buy more, better and new products. With machines scarce resources are used more effectively. So you will get richer societies with better, more and new products. Look at the west before and after the industrial revolution. It's a difference of day and night.

Rich people save and invest more of their money, because good investments create more wealth for them and society. They get more money and societies gets more, better and newer products. If the rest of the society would save more money and make good investments. Then society would become richer. Instead the rest of the people doesn't save money or they even get in debt. So the scarce money of society is then not used for good companies to invest in machines, but wasted by people on consumer goods. Also the great depression started after the popping of the stock market bubble in the end of the 1920's. The problem of the 1920's was they spend to much and were buying too much stock. It was called the Roaring Twenties.

2. Economy is not about equality. It's about effective use of scarce resources.

Good post.

It is fallacy and unfortunately becoming political spin accepted fallacy that savings are bad, create problems and that spending is what drives an economy.

It is in fact savings that drive and under pin an economy. But gov'ts are so over leveraged and so dependant on getting the maximum spending out to secure their budgets that they continue this fallacy.

The more you have a society based on savings the better off that society will be short and long term.

 

[Rod1]

are you saying Greece went under because they were not taxing enough.

Have you ever read about the Greek crisis? or are you simply parroting what you hear from pundits?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_evasion_and_corruption_in_Greece

 

[MikeHammer**]

Have you ever read about the Greek crisis? or are you simply parroting what you hear from pundits?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_evasion_and_corruption_in_Greece

Heh. Ya i likely know far more then you and your ability to cite the wiki.

Have you looked into the reason why they say record numbers of Greeks including everyone up to the Prime Minister were avoiding taxes? It was because of the absurd level the greek taxes were raised to.

Got love it. tax until everyone chokes and you get record tax evasion and everyone decides to risk jail to keep some of their money...and have others say it is the tax evaders that are the problem. No. the system was completely broken and over run by bureaucrats and unions who demanded ever more until the base they counted on (the golden goose) could survive no longer. Then threaten them with jail if they don't keep giving. lol.

 

[Rod1]

Heh. Ya i likely know far more then you and your ability to cite the wiki.

Have you looked into the reason why they say record numbers of Greeks including everyone up to the Prime Minister were avoiding taxes? It was because of the absurd level the greek taxes were raised to.

Got love it. tax until everyone chokes and you get record tax evasion and everyone decides to risk jail to keep some of their money...and have others say it is the tax evaders that are the problem. No. the system was completely broken and over run by bureaucrats and unions who demanded ever more until the base they counted on (the golden goose) could survive no longer. Then threaten them with jail if they don't keep giving. lol.

No, its because of the absurd levels of corruption in government spending and tax evasions.

As you said, the system was completely broken, yet you keep pandering it as a failure of "socialism", yet keep ignoring the solid socialist economies of europe.

When someone brings a corrupt capitalist nation going under (like Argentina in the 90s) you will bitch out claiming corruption, but when a corrupt country like Venezuela or Greece goes under, then you claim its the fault of socialism.

 

[Ruprecht]

The revolution was finished long before the global oil price collapse.

That's just the decapitation stroke.

Oil prices crashing are the final blow, but the entire political situation in Venezuela (predating Chavez' revolution and including externals such as US interference/Anti- US sentiment) stems from having an oil dependent economy and politics which revolve around the distribution of oil wealth.
Having a government which is essentially a single industry, independent of taxation on the general population and broader economic performance, creates a serious problem in terms of representation, accountability, transparency/corruption, stability and the other usual corollaries of successful governance.