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*Machida vindicates TMA (Karate)*

This is the stupidest thread ever. Yeah Karate and Tae Kwon Do are effective when you use them in real sparring. As long as you're doing full sparring you'll learn to fight. People rip on karate and TKD because 99.9% of it's practitioners are doing katas by themselves and breaking wood boards for a gym full of 9 year olds. Your "mawashi geri" is just a fucking kick. It's not "karate," it's not "Muay Thai," it's a basic fucking kick. Next you're going to be telling me that when Fabio Maldonado throws a punch, it's boxing, but when Jose Aldo throws a punch, it's Muay Thai.
 
The TMAs aren't the problem... It's the watered down mcdojos you see throughout western countries and bullshido greedy instructors who rip off students and their parents while teaching them nothing more than a personal training session..

TMAs done correctly offer do work and offer a lot to a student.






.
 
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Gun'n'Run said:
This is the stupidest thread ever. Yeah Karate and Tae Kwon Do are effective when you use them in real sparring. As long as you're doing full sparring you'll learn to fight. People rip on karate and TKD because 99.9% of it's practitioners are doing katas by themselves and breaking wood boards for a gym full of 9 year olds. Your "mawashi geri" is just a fucking kick. It's not "karate," it's not "Muay Thai," it's a basic fucking kick. Next you're going to be telling me that when Fabio Maldonado throws a punch, it's boxing, but when Jose Aldo throws a punch, it's Muay Thai.
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Well if your going to spilt hairs a Kimura is just a arm lock...not bjj
 
Konighter said:
IT'S NOT A HYBRID KICK FFS! It's a mawashi geri, omg! Don't you understand? MMA does NOT revolve around MT and wrestling!
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Yelling does not make you right.

Please go to a book store and find some karate books. Look up how they teach the mawashi geri. Overwhelmingly, they will show a kick that is slightly different from Machida's. They will show the bottom foot only rotating as the kick goes out (after the kicking leg has been chambered to the side), and they will tell you to strike with the ball of the foot or the top of the foot/instep (the variation usually used in sparring). That's overwhelmingly what a karate mawashi geri is taught as and practiced in karate schools.
 
XenonRadon said:
Yelling does not make you right.

Please go to a book store and find some karate books. Look up how they teach the mawashi geri. Overwhelmingly, they will show a kick that is slightly different from Machida's. They will show the bottom foot only rotating as the kick goes out (after the kicking leg has been chambered to the side), and they will tell you to strike with the ball of the foot or the top of the foot/instep (the variation usually used in sparring). That's overwhelmingly what a karate mawashi geri is taught as and practiced in karate schools.
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Wrong. I was taugh that we can hit with the shin or with the ball of the foot if the oponent is a bit far, it depends. And the bottom foot rotates right away with the body generating more momentum. I do Shotokan and that's how I learned.
 
I think sparring and training against resistance is only half the problem. I know of some king fu schools that train with sparring. The problem is the schools have all soaked in a kind of unspoken agreement about what fighting means and so it sometimes looks almost like fencing. To make an art effective it has to be proved against outsiders that have different expectations about how the fight will progress.
 
People like Machida because he is the really classy, respectful guy that destroys the guys people want to see lose. Thiago Silva was supposed to be a killer and is a frightening man, but Machida walked through him. Rashad knocked out Chuck and was cocky and Machida of course produced the all time great KO face and stanky leg.
 
toaa said:
People like Machida because he is the really classy, respectful guy that destroys the guys people want to see lose. Thiago Silva was supposed to be a killer and is a frightening man, but Machida walked through him. Rashad knocked out Chuck and was cocky and Machida of course produced the all time great KO face and stanky leg.
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Rampage told Rashad that Machida made him do the stanky leg...lol
 
bub said:
I love these stupid names for basic attacks.

"He dropped Thiago Silva with a straight left, or an Awikinijawa-tipperamitsu dajjishiyuana."
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I like the poetic names they give certain techniques like "monkey steals peaches" for a groin grab and pull with one hand and a push with the other forearm. Kung Fu styles have the best names for these.
 
Calling cung le's style kung fu is an insult to cung le.
 
For everybody talking about whether it's a karate kick or a muay thai kick. Karate, Kung Fu and TKD all have the round kick variation known to most as a muay thai kick. The reason most people argue over what art's kick it was is because they aren't entirely familiar or have never practiced that art.

The sparring rules of TMA such as Karate, Kung Fu, and TKD favor using faster kicks with the instep to score points to win the match. That is why people think that this is the only way they throw the kick. What they show in sparring is not how they defend themselves. They don't punch to the face in sparring but will punch you in the face in self defense.

The rules of a Thai Boxing match allow this kick which is why people think it is unique to Muay Thai. This type of kick injures people and TMA are trying to learn without getting injured. It is very easy to do each variation if you are really good at the basic round kick.

There are several different variations of the round kick that are taught in TMA. Each has its own purpose and reason for being thrown.
 
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mrsinister said:
He's shown that with the right skill set and athleticism, the footwork and attacks of competition karate can be modified for MMA. But he hasn't vindicated katas or anything like that.
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Katas make you coordinated, precise, and strong for fighting. The weird movements are movements for various purposes like using different weapons.

No Karate stylist uses an x stance or the other stances fighting. Those stances are to increase your balance and coordination.

A Karate stylist uses a fighting stance to fight very similar to a kick boxer or any fighter with slight variations. They fight just like Machida does.

Katas work.
 
I won't say that katas don't work. I believe they have some value. The problems start when 90% of your training time is spent doing katas, when the only requirements for promotion are memorizing katas and Japanese/Korean terms or when people say "the secrets of the art are in kata."
 
Irenaeus said:
Judo has been considered worthwhile for MMAs entire existence.

Also, can we stop using the term TMA? It's completely meaningless. All of the "practical" sports which are the pillars of MMA have pretty old tradition, and MT is asian as well, if you happen to be of the rather strange opinion that western martial arts don't count.

The dichotomy is between training with aliveness or not, not TMA vs MMA, and this dichotomy doesn't even follow the arts nicely. A karate dojo with an emphasis on sparring and training for full-contact matches with relatively few rules restrictions will produce good fighters, a karate dojo without any sparring, and with a point-fighting or kata focus will not. Machida doesn't do shit to vindicate the second group, nor does he do anything to vindicate Tai Chi, Aikido or Systema.
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The second group does it their way to avoid injury and for a lifestyle. Their purpose is to be healthy and still know some defense not be a professional fighter. The movements you think are fake are. They tell you it has one purpose when the movement has an entirely different purpose. Practicing the fake move makes you better at the real one they are actually teaching you. They are making the students move.
 
Just another reason to justify all the wasted money and dancing around in pajamas when they were younger. We all know that crap doesn't work.
 
Konighter said:
Probably, a lot of the focus in a Karate Kick is to be as fast as can be.
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Not really fast, but it is more balanced and less telegraphed.

Sports Science is an awful show, and using a guy who is an MMA fighter to show the difference between a Karate kick and Thai kick is awful:


This is an example of a Muay Thai kick. Obviously, there are several variants, but they all keep the leg very loose and the power comes from pivoting the hips completely through the target.

This is an example of a Shotokan Karate kick. There are also several slight variants, but they all have a slight chamber and a good chunk of the power comes from the quads when snap the kick out of the chamber. It should come back and bring you into a stable stance.

Obviously Machida does a slight combo of the two, but it's much more Karate, and I'm not sure if he's really throwing a hybrid or if it's just not a picture perfect Karate kick and he's throwing it with power.

And people throw Karate kicks with shin all the time; the overall goal is to use the ball or instep, but if you're too close, you don't just withdraw the kick, you kick through with the shin.


Edit: and contrary to what one trolling hapkido artist will tell you, there is nothing like a Thai kick in any traditional japanese karate system.
 
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