Luke Thomas: Massive drop in 205 quality

[franquito]

Often discussed on these boards is change in the quality of divisions, especially 205.
Prof Salt-and-Pepper gives his take.
He points out the number of Olympians and National wrestling champs who occupied the top 15 back in 2014, compared to now. I think this is an effective argument.
I think his listing of the number of UFC Hall of Fame members is less convincing, as the UFC HOF is more a popularity contest than a true measurement of achievement.

What do you all think, and what are the chances 205 fighter quality will increase in the future?

 

[Istryker]

205 is the worst mens division in MMA. Maybe even combat sports as a whole.

Next closest is 147 in boxing now that Spence and Crawford moved up, there's guys like Mario Barrios that are full time champs, even tho there's still Boots and a few guys coming up.

 

[Hellowhosthat]

HOF argument is also silly given that some guys who are fighting now will inevitably end up there at some point.

But yeah 205 is at a lower point compared to the Jones, DC, Rumble, Gus and Glover era but you tend to get cycles with this shit so I'm sure at some point in the future there'll be a period where the top of the division is great again.

 

[Only Here for Attachments]

I don't see how an all-time lack of wrestlers is anything but positive.

 

[Laheys'Liquorland]

Let's compare everything to Pride roster divisions and every era would seem weak.

 

[Hdfi]

The quality of striking is better now.

 

[Hellowhosthat]

Let's compare everything to Pride roster divions and every era would seem weak.

I don't think the Jones, DC, Rumble, Glover and Gus division has anything to envy from the pride one tbh

 

[Koro_11]

205 might be one of the weakest divisions, but they have the coolest champion.

205 champ > any other champ

 

[filthybliss]

I have been saying this. 40 yr old Texeira being champ substantiated that. The gap between him at his brittle state and the upcoming stars of the division were too slim for me to say the division is not weak.

 

[FEDORGOATPRIDE15-0]

HOF argument is also silly given that some guys who are fighting now will inevitably end up there at some point.

But yeah 205 is at a lower point compared to the Jones, DC, Rumble, Gus and Glover era but you tend to get cycles with this shit so I'm sure at some point in the future there'll be a period where the top of the division is great again.

UFC hall of fame is whoever stroked Dana whites ego thr most. The fact Hend, FEDOR and Mighgy mouse aren't in, yet Edgar and Wanderlai got in is crazy, not to mention Sakaraba who fought in 1 tournament for them and the rest PRIDE etc.

 

[laleggenda27]

LHW and HW are the only divions that have demonstrably gotten worse over the years.

In some instances, the champions from 10-15 years ago were better than the current champions. But the overall depth of talent across divisions has skyrocketed; most divisions are absolutely loaded with well-rounded fighters. LHW and HW are the exception.

 

[HI SCOTT NEWMAN]

The thing is though it will only get worse and worse, because everyone is much smaller these days. I've been in MMA gyms the last few years and honestly all the fighters training there are 110 Ibs - 195 Ibs .. and you will get the odd 1 or 2 guys that are like 210 Ibs. There are no HWs and LHWs in them, seeing a HW in there is like looking for a needle in a haystack, there are none really in US.

Now I can't talk about foreign countries, I can only talk about US, but yeah HW MMA is dead in US and there are no HWs in the MMA gyms, of course by the law of averages there are some, but its really not many at all. Everyone is small or a woman in 2024 MMA gyms.

The MMA gym near me I've never seen any LHW or HWs in them, everyone is under 195, and the rest are women, there are much more women in them now, but before there were none or only a few.

The only big guys I've ever seen in a MMA gym are some guys from Tonga, Samoa, Fiji and Maori NZ, but they were only stopping there for a few weeks and moved from gym to gym, there were all big HWs and SHW size.. but like I said they are not there full time. US LHW and HW is dead, everyone is much smaller in these times.

 

[laleggenda27]

I have been saying this. 40 yr old Texeira being champ substantiated that. The gap between him at his brittle state and the upcoming stars of the division were too slim for me to say the division is not weak.

Glover is my guy. And him winning the title at 42 years-old was one of the most heart-warming moments in the sport's history.

But 35-year-old Glover would have besmirched 42-year--old Glover. And 35-year-old Glover wasn't winning a title. Hell, by the time he was 35, he was already slowing down. The fact that he won the title 7 years later is absurd.

 

[CombatCyborg]

Often discussed on these boards is change in the quality of divisions, especially 205.
Prof Salt-and-Pepper gives his take.
He points out the number of Olympians and National wrestling champs who occupied the top 15 back in 2014, compared to now. I think this is an effective argument.
I think his listing of the number of UFC Hall of Fame members is less convincing, as the UFC HOF is more a popularity contest than a true measurement of achievement.

What do you all think, and what are the chances 205 fighter quality will increase in the future?

Maybe. I personally think Old Jan and Old Glover, Reyes, and Jiri are very good, but I could be wrong.

 

[Dr. Rose]

Sherdog has been saying that for at least six years. Some for a decade when they talk about JBJ beating the carcass of Shogun and Rampage (I disagree with this btw)

 

[RockyLockridge]

LHW even it's glamour days was always questionable.

People dont like hearing this, but guys like shogun, Wanderlei, Rampage, machida are all middleweights in todays MMA landscape, They'd get outsized by less skilled guys who are just plain bigger.

 

[Istryker]

I don't see how an all-time lack of wrestlers is anything but positive.

MMA fan hating that MMA isn't kickboxing.

And y'all wonder why you guys are considered the worst fanbase in sports and get minimal growth as a whole

 

[Only Here for Attachments]

MMA fan hating that MMA isn't kickboxing.

And y'all wonder why you guys are considered the worst fanbase in sports and get minimal growth as a whole

I don't wonder about either of those things.

It just seems like so many people (fans and older fighters alike) are still brainwashed by the Joe Silva mindset of "Snuff every single exciting striker out." The angry midget has been gone for years and it definitely shows in today's fights. If you like LnP, go watch NCAA wrestling.

 

[Istryker]

I l

I don't wonder about either of those things.

It just seems like so many people (fans and older fighters alike) are still brainwashed by the Joe Silva mindset of "Snuff every single exciting striker out." The angry midget has been gone and it definitely shows in fights. If you like LnP, go watch NCAA wrestling.

I like the best fighting the best. Irregardless of striking or grappling.

If I wanted to watch Kickboxing I would watch K1 or whatever the fuck it's called

 

[World eater]

In the Jones / Gus era, Anthony Smith was ranked at number 3. Just food for thought.