Ryan García vs Luke Campbell Jan.2nd DAZN

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

"Arguably the second best boxer in the division." I mean, maybe, I suppose he could be, but we can only entertain that possibility because the top part of the division is filled with unproven prospects (unproven prospects who show the signs of more ability than Campbell has ever showcased as a pro). Campbell certainly has never beaten anyone to make the assertion that he's elite. Who is Campbell's best win? Mendy? Perez? He was competitive with Linares while getting a very generous card and took Lomachenko the distance. That's not particularly proven in my mind.

You don't think a guy with Campbell's excellent pedigree (Olympic champion pedigree) isn't arguably the second best in terms of boxing ability in the division? I didn't say he was arguably the second best fighter because he's not. Lopez doesn't have a developed enough jab or good enough defense to be rated as a better boxer than Campbell despite being the superior counterpuncher, Ryan Garcia hasn't had to show his actual boxing ability at all yet, Pedraza is no longer in the division, Haney hasn't fought anyone yet at the elite level (not even a bottom top 10 contender), and Davis is similar to Lopez in that his jab is heavily underutilized. Campbell has displayed his boxing skill against the two top dogs in the division.

Until Haney can actually make good on his hype and show it against a rated contender or a world titlist his talent isn't worth discussing. The young prospects in the division are more talented but that doesn't automatically make them better than Campbell in terms of boxing ability. He's the Lightweight version of Derevyanchenko and nobody questions whether Derevyanchenko is a worthy proven contender as he's been in there with both Jacobs & Golovkin in highly competitive close fights. In Campbell's case he only came up short against the #1 guy on both occasions and gave a good account of himself against Linares in his first title fight. To describe him as not even ‘remotely proven’ isn't accurate as he was able to test both (Loma to a much lesser extent).

 

[JayE]

You don't think a guy with Campbell's excellent pedigree (Olympic champion pedigree) isn't arguably the second best in terms of boxing ability in the division? I didn't say he was arguably the second best fighter because he's not. Lopez doesn't have a developed enough jab or good enough defense to be rated as a better boxer than Campbell despite being the superior counterpuncher, Ryan Garcia hasn't had to show his actual boxing ability at all yet, Pedraza is no longer in the division, Haney hasn't fought anyone yet at the elite level (not even a bottom top 10 contender), and Davis is similar to Lopez in that his jab is heavily underutilized. Campbell has displayed his boxing skill against the two top dogs in the division.

Until Haney can actually make good on his hype and show it against a rated contender or a world titlist his talent isn't worth discussing. The young prospects in the division are more talented but that doesn't automatically make them better than Campbell in terms of boxing ability. He's the Lightweight version of Derevyanchenko and nobody questions whether Derevyanchenko is a worthy proven contender as he's been in there with both Jacobs & Golovkin in highly competitive close fights. In Campbell's case he only came up short against the #1 guy on both occasions and gave a good account of himself against Linares in his first title fight. To describe him as not even ‘remotely proven’ isn't accurate as he was able to test both (Loma to a much lesser extent).

I thought you were using boxer interchangeably with fighter. The same more or less applies, though. Campbell might have a nice pedigree, but he's hardly shown to be a dominant pure boxer in the pros (plenty of other guys with nice pedigrees who were far from dominant pure boxers in the pros).

There are some rough comparables between Derevyanchenko and Campbell, but it's not necessarily the same situation. Derevyanchenko arguably beat Golovkin and was plenty competitive with Jacobs (more competitive with Jacobs than Campbell was with Linares in my view). It's also pretty obvious the type of fighter Derevyanchenko is and what he brings to the table (there's a pretty clear consistency in what he does and we haven't seen uneven performances throughout his career). Campbell, on the other hand, hasn't been particularly consistent. Again, when your best win is Ivan Mendy (and you're 1-1 with him), you're not exactly a proven commodity.

 

[BADBOYKILLA]

Garcia will make this look easy

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

I thought you were using boxer interchangeably with fighter. The same more or less applies, though. Campbell might have a nice pedigree, but he's hardly shown to be a dominant pure boxer in the pros (plenty of other guys with nice pedigrees who were far from dominant pure boxers in the pros).

There are some rough comparables between Derevyanchenko and Campbell, but it's not necessarily the same situation. Derevyanchenko arguably beat Golovkin and was plenty competitive with Jacobs (more competitive with Jacobs than Campbell was with Linares in my view). It's also pretty obvious the type of fighter Derevyanchenko is and what he brings to the table (there's a pretty clear consistency in what he does and we haven't seen uneven performances throughout his career). Campbell, on the other hand, hasn't been particularly consistent. Again, when your best win is Ivan Mendy (and you're 1-1 with him), you're not exactly a proven commodity.

A nice pedigree doesn't always translate but that's not news. In Campbell's case some of his has translated and it's shown even in his losses. Perceived talent doesn't necessarily translate either at the elite level. It's entirely possible that the likes of Ryan Garcia & Haney won't pan out or they'll be flashes in the pan at best. We don't know enough about either yet, what their durability looks like, and what level they're actually at. We do with Campbell because he's proven to be a worthy contender by fighting the best, that's been shown.

Derevyanchenko is a two-time world title challenger just as Campbell is. Both lost their step-up fights but Campbell's two title bids were against the top guy in the division while Derevyanchenko's weren't (Jacobs was largely viewed as the third best Middleweight, Golovkin the second best). One of Derevyanchenko's failed title bids was against a former P4Per while Campbell's was against a current P4Per (albeit a much smaller fighter of that level). They're very much comparable.

 

[burningspear]

"Arguably the second best boxer in the division." I mean, maybe, I suppose he could be, but we can only entertain that possibility because the top part of the division is filled with unproven prospects (unproven prospects who show the signs of more ability than Campbell has ever showcased as a pro). Campbell certainly has never beaten anyone to make the assertion that he's elite. Who is Campbell's best win? Mendy? Perez? He was competitive with Linares while getting a very generous card and took Lomachenko the distance. That's not particularly proven in my mind.

This is why Teddy Atlas says the UFC is dominating Boxing. In boxing you almost always know who will win, all these unbeaten guys, take 20 patsies before stepping up at all. The UFC has made the 0 unimportant, imagine learning from a loss, instead of knocking over bum of the month.

 

[Jonny Ninja]

This is why Teddy Atlas says the UFC is dominating Boxing. In boxing you almost always know who will win, all these unbeaten guys, take 20 patsies before stepping up at all. The UFC has made the 0 unimportant, imagine learning from a loss, instead of knocking over bum of the month.

Absolutely right. Teddy’s an idiot, but you can’t deny he’s right on this. I love boxing but much prefer MMA matchups

 

[PUO3]

Garcia will make this look easy

That would be quite the statement. I think the odds will be tight.

 

[Hagler]

Pretty good win for Garcia if he pulls it. It's a step up, but I think he has what it takes.

 

[JayE]

This is why Teddy Atlas says the UFC is dominating Boxing. In boxing you almost always know who will win, all these unbeaten guys, take 20 patsies before stepping up at all. The UFC has made the 0 unimportant, imagine learning from a loss, instead of knocking over bum of the month.

There are unproven prospects in the division right now because most of them are under 22. There are hardly any MMA fighters who are anywhere near the elite level at 22. I think one of the big failures in MMA (among many) is how they build fighters. The amount of guys who are ruined and get burnt out on the precipice of bankruptcy at a young age is absurd (I know, because I'm friend with guys who try this shit at regional levels and fail in less spectacular fashion). I think the idea that boxing fans dismiss guys when they lose their 0 is based on very little. We constantly see guys become stars when they have losses (the guy in my av lost his first fight).

I'm never going to listen to a soundbite from Atlas talking about anything, but the idea of celebrating the insane pay structure of MMA in the context of prize fighting is insane. Guys at the beginning of the 20th century were making far higher shares of the revenue than current MMA fighters. Prize fighting is exploitative as a rule, but MMA has accentuated it to a disgusting degree.

 

[JayE]

A nice pedigree doesn't always translate but that's not news. In Campbell's case some of his has translated and it's shown even in his losses. Perceived talent doesn't necessarily translate either at the elite level. It's entirely possible that the likes of Ryan Garcia & Haney won't pan out or they'll be flashes in the pan at best. We don't know enough about either yet, what their durability looks like, and what level they're actually at. We do with Campbell because he's proven to be a worthy contender by fighting the best, that's been shown.

Derevyanchenko is a two-time world title challenger just as Campbell is. Both lost their step-up fights but Campbell's two title bids were against the top guy in the division while Derevyanchenko's weren't (Jacobs was largely viewed as the third best Middleweight, Golovkin the second best). One of Derevyanchenko's failed title bids was against a former P4Per while Campbell's was against a current P4Per (albeit a much smaller fighter of that level). They're very much comparable.

Yeah, but one is clearly close to par with the best in the division (lost a close fight to Jacobs - clearly a better fighter than Linares - and arguably beat Golovkin) and the other is sort of competitive with one guy who was top 2 in the division for awhile and then got beat fairly comprehensively by a p4p fighter. I think common sense weighs them differently, but it's up to you how you feel out a fighter's quality.

 

[burningspear]

There are unproven prospects in the division right now because most of them are under 22. There are hardly any MMA fighters who are anywhere near the elite level at 22. I think one of the big failures in MMA (among many) is how they build fighters. The amount of guys who are ruined and get burnt out on the precipice of bankruptcy at a young age is absurd (I know, because I'm friend with guys who try this shit at regional levels and fail in less spectacular fashion). I think the idea that boxing fans dismiss guys when they lose their 0 is based on very little. We constantly see guys become stars when they have losses (the guy in my av lost his first fight).

I'm never going to listen to a soundbite from Atlas talking about anything, but the idea of celebrating the insane pay structure of MMA in the context of prize fighting is insane. Guys at the beginning of the 20th century were making far higher shares of the revenue than current MMA fighters. Prize fighting is exploitative as a rule, but MMA has accentuated it to a disgusting degree.

You're missing the point. You choose when to enter the big show. From there in, no easy fights. Teddy is saying the fights are far more entertaining because all the guys are at a level and victory isnt guaranteed to anyone. Unlike Boxing where fans pay to watch their guy look like Ray Leonard vs tba for years. Pay is another issue, although obviously related.

 

[NortheastPhilly]

Garcia has a lot of options and I don't see him taking a Tagoe fight next, especially if he has to split the purse generously by way of title eliminator.

With Selby (WBO #1) going the IBF route versus Kombasos Jr. (WBO #5), that means Ukrainian Denys Berinchyk (not to be confused with Ivan at super-lightweight) could be next to get the nod as he's the WBO number 4 ranked contender.

 

[deucesarewild]

I have not watched much of Garcia. I have watched Campbell's two close losses. I wouldn't be surprised if Campbell wins

 

[KID Yamamoto]

Campbell is a tough fight honestly. Gonna be interesting.

 

[MMALOPEZ]

WBC president Mauricio Sulaiman posted on Twitter just moments ago that Golden Boy Promotions has confirmed that Ryan Garcia will participate in the WBC ordered fight against Luke Campbell.


https://www.boxingnews24.com/2020/07/wbc-golden-boy-confirms-ryan-garcia-to-fight-luke-campbell/

 

[Boxiana]

Oscar maybe looking to put Garcia in his place with a tough fight?

Kind of a win win for him - if Garcia wins then he is a legit contender, if he loses then Oscar puts him back in his box for a while.

 

[SandisLL]

- if Garcia wins then he is a legit contender

Most likelty legit gatekeeper.......

His boxing skills are not at Mean Machine level and this failed vs terence and .........not murcian,,,,,,,,automatically must be worse. For murcian entertainment.
All these 2-3 real top guys will maul him even if he will defeat his next opponent.
If he waited 2- 3 years and seriously improved, most likely might be some No1-No2.

 

[Boxiana]

Most likelty legit gatekeeper.......

His boxing skills are not at Mean Machine level and this failed vs terence and .........not murcian,,,,,,,,automatically must be worse. For murcian entertainment.
All these 2-3 real top guys will maul him even if he will defeat his next opponent.
If he waited 2- 3 years and seriously improved, most likely might be some No1-No2.

Diasgree with Gatekeeper - that’s someone who has been around the block, lost a few but still represents a strong challenge for up and comers.

Don’t understand the rest of your post!

 

[SandisLL]

Of course you don't understand.
He is murcian entertainer for murcian market but he yet is not at top 5 level.
He was able to improve till this during next 2- 3 years but appears that he thinks he is smarter than DLH.
+ in his current state he isn't able to do with Loma anything even if he will KTFO this next opponent in 1 minute.
He needs improve, too young yet. Too crude and simple too, but murcian market for entertainment loves raw material even if they are mediocre level but enough athletic prospects from murcia.

And don't pretend, enough clear written. Put him vs someone like Crawford in his size and let's see cotender in action.

 

[SandisLL]

Diasgree with Gatekeeper - that’s someone who has been around the block, lost a few

For this dreamer looks with first loss will be enough not to be a prospect anymore. murcia does have enough numbers with possible cotenders that had defeat in their record. Doesn't looks nice for murcian fan market. defeated cotender.