Lorenzo destroying FPWs (Fighter Pay Warriors)

[Rational Poster]

Let me reiterate - I never brought up that the UFC is failing to attract Olympic athletes. A ding-dong poster in this thread was using geriatric Olympians as evidence that the UFC is already attracting the best athletes.

I asked why the UFC is failing to attract any of the 24 All American heavyweights out of the NCAA in the last 3 years. Cormier was an All American 15 years ago, Cain was 10 years ago.

If you know wrestling, you would know most of these guys are working as high school gym teachers for 40k a year or selling insurance, despite having the single best base for MMA and excellent athleticism.

If UFC pay went up, we would attract better athletes.

You shouldn't have a guy like Schaub who couldn't get a cup of coffee with an NFL practice squad having an overwhelmingly winning record at the highest level of MMA in its marquee division. It also shouldn't be the oldest average aged division in the sport.

Those are signs you are failing to attract people with any options. Money would change that.

There are 10 weight classes in boxing, 3 medalists in each division and both male and females compete.

Why aren't more of them becoming professional boxers?

Isn't the money better in boxing?

 

[finalboss]

Trickle down MMA-conomics.

 

[KTO]

Teaching gym class in a high school for 40k a year.

You aren't figuring in teacher's pensions and benefits in to this equation. Teachers make a fuckton of money a year. Two fucktons when you consider pensions, benefits and the amount of hours they work compared to the rest of the population.

 

[rjmbrd]

You aren't figuring in teacher's pensions and benefits in to this equation. Teachers make a fuckton of money a year. Two fucktons when you consider pensions, benefits and the amount of hours they work compared to the rest of the population.

The median public school teacher salary is 53k a year. Suffice to say I would think being an elite professional athlete should shoot past that.

 

[KTO]

The median public school teacher salary is 53k a year. Suffice to say I would think being an elite professional athlete should shoot past that.

Are pensions and benefits figured in to that number? 53K plus a pension and a summer off? Sounds like a sweet ass deal to me.

Sorry for derailing the thread but the myth of underpaid school teachers pushes my buttons. My apologies.

 

[rjmbrd]

Are pensions and benefits figured in to that number? 53K plus a pension and a summer off? Sounds like a sweet ass deal to me.

Sorry for derailing the thread but the myth of underpaid school teachers pushes my buttons. My apologies.

I'm not saying teachers are underpaid, and frankly I know little about it.

Lets make another analogy - as a risk -vs- reward, its far better for a recent NCAA Division I All-American heavyweight to become a plumper than taking up a career in MMA.

That is how bad the pay is.

 

[rjmbrd]

There are 10 weight classes in boxing, 3 medalists in each division and both male and females compete.

Why aren't more of them becoming professional boxers?

Isn't the money better in boxing?

I have no opinion on pay in boxing because I haven't followed it closely in many years. I don't want to speak out of turn so it doesn't make much sense for me to defend a point you yourself proposed.

My argument is simply that the lack of NCAA All-American heavyweight wrestlers entering MMA is reflected in the poor risk -vs- reward in the pay scale. If pay went up, more would take the risk.

That is not a complicated concept and I cannot fathom those who would argue it.

 

[KTO]

I'm not saying teachers are underpaid, and frankly I know little about it.

Lets make another analogy - as a risk -vs- reward, its far better for a recent NCAA Division I All-American heavyweight to become a plumper than taking up a career in MMA.

That is how bad the pay is.

I gotcha.

I guess the same could be said for musicians. Only a couple companies control all of the money. A couple sell out bands make a small portion of the scratch and the 99% of the rest starve.

Anyway, sorry again for derailing. I've got no horse in this race, I just stroked out a bit when I saw the teacher pay figure

 

[Coolidge]

Of course it matters - context is everything. You used the UFC signing 'Olympic' athletes as an indication that they are getting some of the best there is to offer. If you back peddle like you meant it another way, we have to play a game called 'stupid or liar.'

It doesn't matter whatsoever. My claim was that the UFC signed a number of Olympians. You called this 'woefully inaccurate'. In fact, it's not, which is why you had to shift the goalposts and argue that their Olympic signings simply weren't up to your standard.

'back peddle' You're a moron.

No, Yoel Romero who was an Olympian 16 years ago and Hector Lombard who was an Olympian 12 years ago are not elite athletes by other professional sports standards. In terms of NFL, NBA, MLB, that is just not the case because competition is too high.

Further, guys that are large enough to compete in other professional sports only enter MMA as a last resort. This is reflected in the poor risk -vs- reward in the current landscape.

I've already dealt with that lie with examples from boxing.

 

[chiefwiggum]

http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2015/10/...odys-and-standard-poors-tell-us-about-the-ufc



This article is quoted on here almost daily & the $15% is in-between the 13.6 & 16.3% the article reports.

I was being a goon.

 

[kflo]

I'm not saying teachers are underpaid, and frankly I know little about it.

Lets make another analogy - as a risk -vs- reward, its far better for a recent NCAA Division I All-American heavyweight to become a plumper than taking up a career in MMA.

That is how bad the pay is.

what's the average salary in mma for d1 hw all american's?

 

[Rational Poster]

I have no opinion on pay in boxing because I haven't followed it closely in many years. I don't want to speak out of turn so it doesn't make much sense for me to defend a point you yourself proposed.

My argument is simply that the lack of NCAA All-American heavyweight wrestlers entering MMA is reflected in the poor risk -vs- reward in the pay scale. If pay went up, more would take the risk.

That is not a complicated concept and I cannot fathom those who would argue it.

And my point is the same, if it's so easy to lure athletes from other sports to sports they didn't compete in their whole lives, using the promise of money only, why aren't other sports doing it and why can't you give me examples?

Wrestling is a great base for MMA, but it's not MMA.

 

[rjmbrd]

It doesn't matter whatsoever. My claim was that the UFC signed a number of Olympians. You called this 'woefully inaccurate'. In fact, it's not, which is why you had to shift the goalposts and argue that their Olympic signings simply weren't up to your standard.

Context is everything - that is how adults express information that actually means something.

Are you saying you noted the UFC signed Olympians apropos of nothing? Or did you mean it to counter my point that they are having trouble attracting elite athletes at 205-265lbs, which is what I wrote verbatim?

You climb up the ding-dong tree and I cut it down.

Lets unpack it further. Yoel Romero was an Olympian 10 years ago. Lombard was an Olympian 16 years ago. Cejudo failed to make the Olympic team in 2012, and Cormier failed to make weight and washed out. He's nearing 40 years old.

Are you arguing these are a mark of quality? That MMA is attracting high level athletes, the same as other professional sports?

More specifically - if fighter pay went up by 50% - would it increase the quality of the talent pool?

I've already dealt with that lie with examples from boxing.

Who are you Count Ding-Dong of Mt. Sherdog? Get real. You sound delusional.

 

[kflo]

Context is everything - that is how adults express information that actually means something.

Are you saying you noted the UFC signed Olympians apropos of nothing? Or did you mean it to counter my point that they are having trouble attracting elite athletes at 205-265lbs, which is what I wrote verbatim?

You climb up the ding-dong tree and I cut it down.

Lets unpack it further. Yoel Romero was an Olympian 10 years ago. Lombard was an Olympian 16 years ago. Cejudo failed to make the Olympic team in 2012, and Cormier failed to make weight and washed out. He's nearing 40 years old.

Are you arguing these are a mark of quality? That MMA is attracting high level athletes, the same as other professional sports?

More specifically - if fighter pay went up by 50% - would it increase the quality of the talent pool?





Who are you Count Ding-Dong of Mt. Sherdog? Get real. You sound delusional.

if "fighter pay" went up 50% what would "high level athletes" choose mma instead of?

 

[rjmbrd]

what's the average salary in mma for d1 hw all american's?

There are so few it probably wouldn't be hard to find them, but they are all geriatrics.

To give an illustration, there are only 39 total heavyweights signed to the UFC - despite being the marquee division of the sport, it has less than HALF of the number of participants as both lightweight and welterweight have.

Heavyweight has the oldest average age for any division - that is not a good metric you want in any type of sport.

It is 1) demonstrable the UFC is having trouble attracting athletes in the higher weight divisions and 2) both NCAA heavyweight champions in MMA attempted to make the NFL before entering MMA as a last resort.

I would also propose 3) it is common sense increasing the pay will alter the risk -vs- reward to get some more higher quality athletes in the talent pool.

Or we can keep watching guys in their late 30's fight each other and say this is the best we can do. Whatever works.

 

[Filthymaggot]

I can't help but notice he left out the Reebok deal that paid them huge profit and ducked the fighters on sponsorship dollars. Imo they should have put half that money into fighter contracts, not their own pockets.

 

[Coolidge]

No, Yoel Romero who was an Olympian 16 years ago and Hector Lombard who was an Olympian 12 years ago are not elite athletes by other professional sports standards. In terms of NFL, NBA, MLB, that is just not the case because competition is too high.

Yoel Romero is 39; Hector Lombard is 38. There are 11 players on the NBA roster that are either the same age or older than those two. Two of those players, Tim Duncan and Dirk Nowitzki, are relately recent NBA champions and
are still competitive. The fact that Romero and Lombard competed long ago does not preclude them from being 'elite athletes'.

 

[rjmbrd]

And my point is the same, if it's so easy to lure athletes from other sports to sports they didn't compete in their whole lives, using the promise of money only, why aren't other sports doing it and why can't you give me examples?

Wrestling is a great base for MMA, but it's not MMA.

I didn't say its easy to lure athletes from other sports, I have no interest in defending points you are proposing yourself.

My point is - it is absolutely common sense at FACE VALUE that increasing fighter pay would deepen the talent pool.

 

[Rational Poster]

I can't help but notice he left out the Reebok deal that paid them huge profit and ducked the fighters on sponsorship dollars. Imo they should have put half that money into fighter contracts, not their own pockets.

Who says they aren't?

Fighter contracts are the highest we've seen since the Reebok deal went into effect.

Is that just a coincidence?

 

[kflo]

There are so few it probably wouldn't be hard to find them, but they are all geriatrics.

To give an illustration, there are only 39 total heavyweights signed to the UFC - despite being the marquee division of the sport, it has less than HALF of the number of participants as both lightweight and welterweight have.

Heavyweight has the oldest average age for any division - that is not a good metric you want in any type of sport.

It is 1) demonstrable the UFC is having trouble attracting athletes in the higher weight divisions and 2) both NCAA heavyweight champions in MMA attempted to make the NFL before entering MMA as a last resort.

I would also propose 3) it is common sense increasing the pay will alter the risk -vs- reward to get some more higher quality athletes in the talent pool.

Or we can keep watching guys in their late 30's fight each other and say this is the best we can do. Whatever works.

what are these higher quality athletes doing instead?

you don't just enter mma. you train for years to get to a point where you can compete at the highest level. there you have the possibility of making millions.