Lorenzo destroying FPWs (Fighter Pay Warriors)

[DaveHilly]

I thought he made interesting points about how the top fighters are commanding the most money. Especially with the increased importance of free agency in MMA I think this is something that we'll see moving forward.

People are mad about the guys on the bottom of the card who make 10 and 10 but the UFC pays more than double what Bellator and WSOF pay the guys on the bottom of their cards. As the sport grows I feel that those bottom wages will grow, as was shown when the UFC increased it from 8/8 last year.

Are there any US tax accountants here? As long as we're talking about fighter pay I've always been interested in how fighters file their taxes? Do they have the opportunity to write off their camp expenses against their pay?

 

[Cake4Breakfast]

What fighters and fans need to realize is that Lorenzo's kids need their high school to have athletic facilities on par with the University of Oregon, and Dana's kids need snow in their Vegas front yard.

 

[ortizgnp]

What fighters and fans need to realize is that Lorenzo's kids need their high school to have athletic facilities on par with the University of Oregon, and Dana's kids need snow in their Vegas front yard.

It's good to be a Fertitta

 

[Joe_Armstrong]

Doesn't sound like he destroyed anyone.

 

[Cake4Breakfast]

It's good to be a Fertitta

Agreed, Or a high school friend of one.

 

[MikeMcMann]

TS remember that the UFC pays 50% of all PPV revenue to the broadcaster, so that revenue would greatly inflate the gross revenue number before it is paid out.

 

[Lanshire]

MLB, NFL, NBA ... They all have substantial costs including owning freaking stadiums , TV networks and minor league teams and parks. Yet they manage to fairly pay their athletes.

The Fertitas aren't owning anyone but the fighters. But until the fighters stand up and unionize I can't be bothered anymore.

Not that Im dosagreeing that they dont/cant pay fighters more..they definitely can.

But those other sports do have the advantagr of being heavily subsidized by govt - including the building of new stadiums. Economists have actually done studies on this. For example, about half of the NFLs money is from government subsidies (plus the NFL itself is tax exempt).

So it is a bit of a different situation.

 

[rjmbrd]

All of the fighters I named competed in the Olympics. The fact that they don't meet your standards is a separate issue.

Of course it matters - context is everything. You used the UFC signing 'Olympic' athletes as an indication that they are getting some of the best there is to offer. If you back peddle like you meant it another way, we have to play a game called 'stupid or liar.'

No, Yoel Romero who was an Olympian 16 years ago and Hector Lombard who was an Olympian 12 years ago are not elite athletes by other professional sports standards. In terms of NFL, NBA, MLB, that is just not the case because competition is too high.

Further, guys that are large enough to compete in other professional sports only enter MMA as a last resort. This is reflected in the poor risk -vs- reward in the current landscape.

There isn't any High School or College MMA. There isn't any MMA in the Olympics, either. So there is no direct correlation between an Olympic career and an MMA career.

Of course there is. It is widely accepted that wrestling is one of the best bases for the sport of MMA. Why is the UFC failing to attract elite wrestlers? Why are we shuffling around 2004 Olympians like Cormier and Romero?

We crown 8 new All-American NCAA heavyweights each year. Where are they? Cain was a decade ago. Brock tried out for the Vikings before entering MMA as a last resort.

Cole Kondrad tried out with the Jets before entering MMA as a last resort.

There are far more NCAA All American heavyweights teaching high school gym for 40k a year then entering MMA. That is a reflection of the risk -vs- reward.

Michael Jordan in his 40s was still successful at the highest level of the NBA. He didn't win anything, of course, due to his team being utter crap, but he was still an All-Star and averaged enough points to put him on par with some current top-tier NBA players.

Only a fool would highlight the single most notable outlier in the history of humans playing sport and apply it as a common example. This is willfully ignorant, or you are a moron.

Dan Kelly competed in 2012 (signed 2 years after), Rousey in 2008 (signed 4 years after), Cejudo in 2008 (signed 6 years after), Serrano in 2008 (signed 6 years after), and Bilyal Makhov in 2012 (signed 3 years after). Considering the Summer Olympics only occurs every four years, I think it's fairly common and understandable that you would be a decade or more outside of your Olympics career.

Dan Kelly took 17th place in Judo in 2012. He's also a subsidy to book in Australia, where they have him fighting. He's fought 1 guy you've heard of in Alvey, who summarily put him to sleep.

Cejudo failed to make the Olympic team in 2012, washed out, and then entered MMA as his backup plan.

Jon Jones is one of many elite athletes that have entered MMA. You only consider him to be an 'elite athlete' because you're a physique fetishist. You're certainly not saying it because Jon has the credentials outside of MMA to back it up

Jones is one of the handful of truly elite athletes that have entered MMA, and he's run roughshod over the sport. I have no idea where 'physique fetishist' comes from, Jon Jones was a JuCo national champion in wrestling. How do you not know that?

He was academically ineligible to go to a division I school, which is why we saw him with a national championship in JuCo out of Iowa Central. He has not one, but two brothers in the NFL.

In other leagues such as the NFL, Jon would fit in to the background like his brothers do. He would be considered good. The talent pool in MMA is so thin, he's literally considered the greatest to ever fight.

Wonderboy Thompson is an elite athlete. Cain Velasquez is an elite athlete. Fabricio Werdum is an elite athlete, specifically a world class BJJ competitor. Alistair Overeem is an elite athlete with world class kickboxing credentials. Khabib Nurmagomedov is an elite athlete. RDA is an elite athlete. Jose Aldo is an elite athlete. Frankie Edgar is an elite athlete. Dominick Cruz is an elite athlete. Mighty Mouse Johnson is an elite athlete. Etc. There are a number of 'elite athletes' in MMA. Quite a few of them defy your stereotypical, Football-centric view of what they're supposed to look like, which is why you overlook them.

Heavyweight is a geriatric division with the oldest average age. We've seen guys with obviously middling athletic talent such as Brendan Schaub make it to and succeed at the highest level despite not being good enough for a cup of coffee with an NFL team.

Mitrione never really played in the NFL, bounced around then was shown the door. He goes on to fight for the biggest show at the highest level.

That is simply not possible in other sports. Thats how low the bar is - we can take Olympians from 12 years ago and football washouts on their second and third athletic careers deep in their 30's and they can hang no problem.

If the risk -vs- reward changed in MMA, we would see more elite athletes.

 

[Rational Poster]

Of course it matters - context is everything. You used the UFC signing 'Olympic' athletes as an indication that they are getting some of the best there is to offer. If you back peddle like you meant it another way, we have to play a game called 'stupid or liar.'

No, Yoel Romero who was an Olympian 16 years ago and Hector Lombard who was an Olympian 12 years ago are not elite athletes by other professional sports standards. In terms of NFL, NBA, MLB, that is just not the case because competition is too high.

Further, guys that are large enough to compete in other professional sports only enter MMA as a last resort. This is reflected in the poor risk -vs- reward in the current landscape.




Of course there is. It is widely accepted that wrestling is one of the best bases for the sport of MMA. Why is the UFC failing to attract elite wrestlers? Why are we shuffling around 2004 Olympians like Cormier and Romero?

We crown 8 new All-American NCAA heavyweights each year. Where are they? Cain was a decade ago. Brock tried out for the Vikings before entering MMA as a last resort.

Cole Kondrad tried out with the Jets before entering MMA as a last resort.

There are far more NCAA All American heavyweights teaching high school gym for 40k a year then entering MMA. That is a reflection of the risk -vs- reward.




Only a fool would highlight the single most notable outlier in the history of humans playing sport and apply it as a common example. This is willfully ignorant, or you are a moron.




Dan Kelly took 17th place in Judo in 2012. He's also a subsidy to book in Australia, where they have him fighting. He's fought 1 guy you've heard of in Alvey, who summarily put him to sleep.

Cejudo failed to make the Olympic team in 2012, washed out, and then entered MMA as his backup plan.




Jones is one of the handful of truly elite athletes that have entered MMA, and he's run roughshod over the sport. I have no idea where 'physique fetishist' comes from, Jon Jones was a JuCo national champion in wrestling. How do you not know that?

He was academically ineligible to go to a division I school, which is why we saw him with a national championship in JuCo out of Iowa Central. He has not one, but two brothers in the NFL.

In other leagues such as the NFL, Jon would fit in to the background like his brothers do. He would be considered good. The talent pool in MMA is so thin, he's literally considered the greatest to ever fight.




Heavyweight is a geriatric division with the oldest average age. We've seen guys with obviously middling athletic talent such as Brendan Schaub make it to and succeed at the highest level despite not being good enough for a cup of coffee with an NFL team.

Mitrione never really played in the NFL, bounced around then was shown the door. He goes on to fight for the biggest show at the highest level.

That is simply not possible in other sports. Thats how low the bar is - we can take Olympians from 12 years ago and football washouts on their second and third athletic careers deep in their 30's and they can hang no problem.

If the risk -vs- reward changed in MMA, we would see more elite athletes.

[/QUOTE]


Please provide examples of elite Olympians competing in other sports after competing in the Olympics within a timeframe you find suitable.

 

[robjenkins2]

Needs to come up a lot across the board, from entry level pay to the top dawgs. Champions should be making millions per fight, challengers too. Anyone who can draw on ppv should be paid a lot, as there are very few people who can draw on ppv.

 

[rjmbrd]

Please provide examples of elite Olympians competing in other sports after competing in the Olympics within a timeframe you find suitable.

To be clear - he brought up 'UFC is signing Olympians!' to bolster the quality of athlete we see in MMA. Of course, that is a bad example because most of the Olympians we have who are high profile competed a decade ago, or washed out.

A better example would be my own - we crown 8 new All American NCAA heavyweights each year. That means in the last 3 years, there are 24 All American heavyweights. Where are they?

Why are they not joining MMA?

Cain Velasquez was an All-American 10 years ago. Cormier was an All-American 15 years ago. Where are their modern counterparts?

Teaching gym class in a high school for 40k a year. Or working a job, like Cole Konrad who retired undefeated.

 

[anuscakes]

TS remember that the UFC pays 50% of all PPV revenue to the broadcaster, so that revenue would greatly inflate the gross revenue number before it is paid out.

It's closer to 20-30%.

 

[lifelessheap]

This guy should talk more for the company instead of that moron Dana, he's actually professional.

When Dana talks its like he's trying to sell you soap on an infomercial

Dana is the promoter.

 

[robjenkins2]

I feel like the UFC has prioritized growing the sport internationally and domestically over fighter pay which shouldn't happen. Let it grow organically and pay the fighters the money they deserve. How are you going to keep attracting people into the sport and new talent if you are paying guys low money? Who wants to come into mma and make 40K a fight when you get your head beat in when you can do another sport and make much more money? Not sure why they can't see this.

 

[Bmurray]

I'll criticize the UFC's pay when another organization can exist in MMA for a decade without failing

 

[smart.feller]

You know you could have said this without the rose-tinted "my parents had sex before yours so my generation rules" garbage that people keep regurgitating throughout history.

I could have, but instead of talking about "my great people", let's just talk about the youth. Childhood and teenage obesity rates have quadrupled in the past 30 years...these are physically softer people. Fewer high school graduates, percentage wise, enroll for college. "Safe spaces" are a new thing. So are "microaggressions" and "trigger warnings". Many students get themselves worthless degrees like "gender studies" instead of preparing for careers or learning a trade that will make them competitive in a global market...then they complain about student loans and a lack of jobs. Prescriptions for mind altering drugs to combat issues like depression and attention deficit disorder continue to rise...the absence of mental toughness and fortitude can be "cured" with a pill. The language police are in full effect...there was a push to ban the word "bossy". Sorry, if someone is dissuaded from pursuing a position of leadership because they were called "bossy", they weren't cut out to be a leader to begin with. People think that if something offends them that it is not okay...no one is a special snowflake and no person's opinion is more important than another (mine included)...but just because someone has an opinion doesn't mean that opinion is right or valid.

It doesn't matter who one is, how much money they were born with, what color there skin is...life shits on everyone...you get fired, your best friend fucks your girlfriend, someone dies, your car breaks down...some people claw their way out, and others stay buried just hoping that someone else will walk by carrying a shovel, then they cry when nobody does.

TL;DR - You control your life, make good decisions...and when life gets rough, it's up to you to weather the storm.

 

[smart.feller]

Why are they not joining MMA?
Cain Velasquez was an All-American 10 years ago. Cormier was an All-American 15 years ago. Where are their modern counterparts?

Not everyone likes getting punched in the face. Some people would rather make less money in a career that doesn't involve getting punched in the face.

 

[rjmbrd]

Not everyone likes getting punched in the face. Some people would rather make less money in a career that doesn't involve getting punched in the face.

Agreed.

Not everyone likes slamming their head into other linemen or getting tackled by 350lbs gorillas. It is risk -vs- reward that enters elite athletes into other sports.

I'm suggesting that if pay went up, we would see better athletes. Anyone who responds to this by saying we are already getting the best are lying or misguided.

 

[Rational Poster]

To be clear - he brought up 'UFC is signing Olympians!' to bolster the quality of athlete we see in MMA. Of course, that is a bad example because most of the Olympians we have who are high profile competed a decade ago, or washed out.

A better example would be my own - we crown 8 new All American NCAA heavyweights each year. That means in the last 3 years, there are 24 All American heavyweights. Where are they?

Why are they not joining MMA?

Cain Velasquez was an All-American 10 years ago. Cormier was an All-American 15 years ago. Where are their modern counterparts?

Teaching gym class in a high school for 40k a year. Or working a job, like Cole Konrad who retired undefeated.

Yeah, but you're discrediting the UFC for something no sport is accomplishing.

Generally speaking Olympic level athletes are only concerned with one thing. Winning gold in their chosen field. There are pleeeenty more high level Olympic boxers that never cross over into pro boxing. Way more than Olympic wrestlers.

Why is the UFC required to lure athletes into their sport from other amatuer sports when no one else is? Why is it ok to discredit the ones that they do sign?


They have lured one though, Bilyal Makhov, who has yet to compete in the Olympics.

 

[rjmbrd]

Yeah, but you're discrediting the UFC for something no sport is accomplishing.

Generally speaking Olympic level athletes are only concerned with one thing. Winning gold in their chosen field.

Why is the UFC required to lure athletes into their sport from other amatuer sports when no one else is? Why is it ok to discredit the ones that they do sign?


They have lured one though, Bilyal Makhov, who has yet to compete in the Olympics.

Let me reiterate - I never brought up that the UFC is failing to attract Olympic athletes. A ding-dong poster in this thread was using geriatric Olympians as evidence that the UFC is already attracting the best athletes.

I asked why the UFC is failing to attract any of the 24 All American heavyweights out of the NCAA in the last 3 years. Cormier was an All American 15 years ago, Cain was 10 years ago.

If you know wrestling, you would know most of these guys are working as high school gym teachers for 40k a year or selling insurance, despite having the single best base for MMA and excellent athleticism.

If UFC pay went up, we would attract better athletes.

You shouldn't have a guy like Schaub who couldn't get a cup of coffee with an NFL practice squad having an overwhelmingly winning record at the highest level of MMA in its marquee division. It also shouldn't be the oldest average aged division in the sport.

Those are signs you are failing to attract people with any options. Money would change that.