Longass post (Kyokushin, Unilateral substitutes for squat, overall schedule, ect)

Discussion in 'Strength & Conditioning Discussion' started by Hojo undo, Sep 23, 2010.

  1. Hojo undo

    Hojo undo White Belt

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    Completely unecessary introduction. (Scroll down to The issues if you value your time)

    So I'm finally able to live my childhood's martial art dream. I have found a gym that offers Kyokushin and Thaiboxing. In the aspect of Kyokushin the gym is -very- merited, its fighters having won many medals both in europe and japan. The thaiboxing is mostly offered as a complement, with a dutch thaiboxer as the main instructor.

    As an old Shotokankai I find the Kyokushin training to be top quality while I lack the expertise to comment upon the Thaiboxing, but the trainer seems to know what he is doing and will only focus on basics for atleast half a year. Which is completely fine by me.

    Outside classes you have access to the gym for bagwork/solotraining and general workouts from 09:00-21:00 which I suppose is real good. Especially that this is Sweden and I pay only ~40$ per month for all this.

    (For those interested, one can participate in the fight-team classes during the day for the competitive fighters. Running/pad/mitwork each day for two hours)


    My Schedule

    This is the current schedule that I have been following for the last few weeks.

    Monday: 19:00-20:00 Kyokushin training. (A mixed bag depending on the trainers. it might be fighting techniques, sparring or even traditional basic training.)

    Tuesday: 19:00-20:00 Kyokushin Kata. (Very light training since it's just forms)
    20:00-21:00 Thaiboxing (Thaiboxing, Very basic, with some pad/mitswork

    Wednesday: 18:00-19:00 Kyokushin Fighting. (Contact sparring for one hour in 3-5 minutes rounds. Not -too- physically demanding but you get very, very bruised. I always limp after all the legkicks)

    Thursday: 18:30-20:00 Kyokushin training. (30 minutes of basics as warmup and then one hour of fight techniques and sparring drills)
    20:00-21:00 Thaiboxing. (Same as Thuesday)
    Friday: I'm resting.

    Saturday: 12:00-13:30 Kyokushin Fighting. (One hour of rounds of Padwork/going all out against partners with bodyshields. Half an hour of sparring)

    Sunday: 15:00-16:30 Thaiboxing. (Same as usual but with dedicated warmups and stretches)




    The Issue

    The gym is being renovated and they have promised me a squat-rack and a barbell.

    But right now they just have a room full of machines, a pull-up bar, Dumbells up to 25Kg. So I will have to do with gear and calisthenics.

    For someone who has followed Starting Strenght and the texas method of a year (Max was just 130 Kg Squat at 85 kilo bodyweight) this is a completely mental fuckup and this is where I need help!

    I haven't strenght trained in over a month and the last time I squatted I just did 100kg. So I'm officially weak as a pussy again, but that's alright.
    I'm down at 75 kilos, so it's ten kilos less fat and muscles from the 85 kilo Bodyweight of 130 Kilo Squat. Which also is sad but I was still a beginner.

    I'm aware that I won't be able to do anything similiar to Starting Strenght and the texas method even if I had a barbell but I was thinking of doing the 2-Day split from the Faq but with some nessesary modifications.

    This is where I need help

    This is what I have thought of:

    - Two day split:

    Day one:
    Dumbell Overhead Press
    Weighted pullup/chinup

    Day two:
    Flat press (With Dumbells)
    Bent over row (With Dumbells)

    That should solve the pressing and pulling. But how the fuck do I substitute the squatting and deadlifting?

    I have thought of goodmornings with hanging dumbells, overhead dumbell squats, stepups, pistols and bulgarian squats but I don't know how to implement these.

    I'm also open to the idea of just strenght training once per week.

    Perhaps I should just buy a book from Rosstraining xD

    Edit: As far as cardio I'm struggling to just survive the training as it is.
     
  2. VoodooPlata

    VoodooPlata Brown Belt

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    You don't really substitute squats and deadlifts... they're pretty mandatory. Sorry, I'm clueless - maybe you can just focus on cardio for now and then start doing things properly when the gym is done being renovated?
     
  3. Fedorable

    Fedorable Continues without supporting Sherdog.

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  4. Beable

    Beable Blue Belt

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    If your budget allows it, find a gym with actual barbell equipment for the months your current gym is being renovated.
     
  5. PariahSmithee

    PariahSmithee Yellow Belt

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    Lunges, swings, side lunges, to the side swings, DB RDL, suitcase DB DL, DB DL, DB Bulgarian Split squast, DB cleans...if anything seems to light just increase the volume/decrease the rest time...add a few bands to the equations...around the hips, sashed shoulder to foot,etc...so you can't do barbell squats and deads...there may be no substitute absolute strength wise but you will gain in other areas.
     
  6. Hojo undo

    Hojo undo White Belt

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    A lot of exercises there. I will look them up, Phariah. But the real problem is making a.. Uhm.. Program out of all those. I suppose I will goggle a bit more and look at Ross website.

    And guys: I'm a hardcore barbell user myself, I don't need you to say that there aren't any worthy substitutes. But there are substitutes, the problem I have is with a combination. But thanks for all the advice. I will do my research.
     
  7. Mumrik

    Mumrik Silver Belt

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    Seriously man, be more creative, don't just repeat yourself all over the place.
     
  8. joho

    joho Guest

    Do you have a weight belt? a car? do wind sprints uphill with a weight belt on dragging your your car =)
     
  9. KnightTemplar

    KnightTemplar Halloween Belt Platinum Member

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    Pity the DB's only go up to 25k; Dumbbell Bench is an excellent exercise for martial artists; even Coach Rip himself admits they are just as good and perhaps even better than Barbell Bench unless you are a competitive Powerlifter. And some of the top fighter, like GSP and Lesnar, use DB Bench in their Strength Training Programs.

    I can only echo what others have suggested: find a gym with good kit where you can pay per workout or on short-term membership until your new gym is ready.
     
  10. Hojo undo

    Hojo undo White Belt

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    Unfortunately I have no belt or car. But perhaps I should invest in one. THe funny thing it that they have over 200kg's worth of barbell plates, that were supposedly used for a (Now broken) smithmachine... I just need that f*cking barebell and I deadlift and do front squats. -_-,

    Alright. Thanks again for the input guys. I am on a rather tight budget but I know a good gym in the area. But instead of membership I can only pay per occasion, meaning once per week.

    So assuming that I can only do supplementary strenght training once per week, how could such a session look?

    Perhaps like day A and B from the 2 split program but with 5x5 on everything? I know that strength won't increase much but it's better than nothing. They have us do a lot of pushups, situps and oldschool exercises that I don't feel do much except for endurance, and mess with my cycle. xD
     
  11. KnightTemplar

    KnightTemplar Halloween Belt Platinum Member

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    There is a One Day Per Week Template in Wendler's 5/3/1. But, with no disrespect intended, it's ment for Intermediate and Advanced lifters. I don't know if it would be suitable for you.
     
  12. Hojo undo

    Hojo undo White Belt

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    It's definetly not. Since I'm basically at the 'beginner stage again'' (Not being able to squat 1.5 x my bodyweight) (I think I can manage 110 kilos but just one rep)
     
  13. Bennayboi

    Bennayboi Yellow Belt

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    WS4SB doesnt require a barbell. For lower body you can do Single Leg SLDL, Bulgarian Split Squat, Pistol Squats, Farmers Walk all with dumbbells. There are a lot of options. Also dont let the name of the program fool you, WS4SB is a muscle and strength program for everyone. It even works for fat people.

    http://www.elitefts.com/ws4sb/WS4SB.pdf

    Gotta love sherdogs response though. "No barbell? Guess you cant workout."
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2010
  14. maximus__

    maximus__ Blue Belt

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    Do pistols as your squat substitute and use dumbells to increase the difficulty. The 25 kg dumbells will be heaps and you will probably find you smash your old squat numbers when you can squat again. Deadlifts are a little bit harfder because even with 2 25 kg dumbells snatches arent that hard...possibly make yourself a sandbag ??
     
  15. Hojo undo

    Hojo undo White Belt

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    Hmm.. I will take a look at the program, but as previously said, four times per week seems a bit harsh. And I'm used to wholebody programs. But I need to be openminded and I will read through the whole article before making a decision! Thanks for linking it!

    And pistols honestly seem very hardcore, which I like : ) Farmers walk is something that I have to try, I'm not sure if 50Kgs in total is enough? Bulgarian splits does also look awesome.

    I have really gotten a few good ideas, but I have few more questions:

    1. Can I perform a proper ''press'' with dumbells instead? Like an OHP? Not the strange dumbell press that you see on youtube. (Where people stand like in a T position with their lower arms straight up. ''Can'' as in, is the form beneficial over a conventional dumbell press?

    Any Flat dumbell press and overhead pressing with dumbells, is that enough for pushing or should I look into some pushup variation?

    Again, I apologize for acting like a noob. It's mostly the whole ''setting a program together'' that confuses me, since I'm used to follow strict templates, (SS, Texas method)
     
  16. Bennayboi

    Bennayboi Yellow Belt

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    Me, and presumably a lot of other people leave out the dynamic effort lower body day for extra rest. Its really meant for athletes who need to tune up their running/jumping/explosive skills.

    If youre going to do two upperbody days, you can just do flat press and OHP, but personally i prefer to do four pressing exercises, two on each day. Like flat and OHP on monday and Incline press and Dip/tricep ext/pushup on friday. Which exercises you choose is entirely up to you.

    Heres a DB OHP video.

     
  17. scoopj

    scoopj ackson

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    Is that really what you got out of the posts above yours? It seems to me the majority of posts suggested alternatives to barbells.
     
  18. PCP

    PCP Guest

    Worst post I read all month... Of course you need a barbell for that shit. Are you going to max out on pistol squats and dumbbell presses? :rolleyes: Do you know anything about Westside training at all?
     
  19. TrevorRoss

    TrevorRoss Double Yellow Card Double Yellow Card

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    No barbell=sissy.:icon_chee
     

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